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Gas cars and trucks can have multi hour accidents too. Here’s a seven hour accident. https://www.wcax.com/2021/03/03/car-fire-closes-part-of-i-93-for-hours htt

by dv_dt 6y ago

Gas cars and trucks can have multi hour accidents too. Here’s a seven hour accident. https://www.wcax.com/2021/03/03/car-fire-closes-part-of-i-93-for-hours https://www.wcax.com/2021/03/03/car-fire-closes-part-of-i-93... Last time the stats were visited on this a couple of years ago it seems has cars catch fire about 10x more than electric cars.

Alupis 6y ago
There's a big difference between neglecting maintenance on a vehicle until it overheats enough to catch fire, and a vehicle which bursts into flames regularly upon impact while people are trapped inside. We get you like Tesla... but that doesn't excuse being deliberately obtuse. You cannot hand wave away these people that were stuck inside a fire bomb of a vehicle which required about 20 fire trucks worth of water[1] to extinguish the flames... For what should have been a routine accident response. The people inside, if still alive, had no chance of survival. That's really bad... [1] https://www.solonohio.org/203/Fire-Trucks#:~:text=Contemporary%20fire%20engines%20carry%20their,between%201%2C000%20gpm%20-%202%2C000%20gpm https://www.solonohio.org/203/Fire-Trucks#:~:text=Contempora....
- dv_dt 6y ago
  Looking at the quantitative picture and thinking systematically is trying to be obtuse? I would also think about gas tanker fires and the systematic reduction of those on the types of vehicles on the road with more electric vehicles. Many gas automotive fires don't have to do with maintenance either - that seems like a really odd assumption.
  - Alupis 6y ago
    Do you have any evidence to backup your assertions? You stated upthread that you'd guess gasoline fueled vehicles catch fire more frequently than EV vehicles... you're going to need evidence to backup such an outlandish claim, and the cause of the fire would also need to be an accident such as the one this Tesla was involved in. It's actually quite difficult to ignite gasoline in liquid form (which is what is in the fuel lines and fuel tank of an automobile). It must be a vapor, and it must be in the presence of an ignition source. ICE vehicles have been designed over the last 100 years to precisely not explode upon impact. Real life isn't hollywood... cars just don't explode because of an accident... you can even shoot a full gas tank with a high caliber rifle and it'll still not explode nor catch fire. The problem you are equating to vehicles just does not exist anywhere except electronic vehicles powered by these Lithium-Ion batteries... like what is found in your average Tesla.
    - dv_dt 6y ago
      https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/News-and-Research/Fire-statistics-and-reports/US-Fire-Problem/osvehiclefires.pdf https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/News-and-Research/Fire-st... From the report: "Vehicle fires accounted for 16 percent of the 1.3 million fires reported to US fire departments. Vehicle fires also caused 15 percentof all civilian fire deaths and 10 percent of all reported civilian fire injuries. In 2018, only fires in one- and two- family homes claimed more lives than vehicle fires. Vehicle fires caused 4.5 times the number of deaths as nonresidential structure fires and 1.6 times the number of apartment fire deaths."
      - Alupis 6y ago
        From your own source: > The leading causes of vehicle fires were mechanical failures or malfunctions and electrical failures or malfunctions. Older vehicles accounted for three-quarters of the highway vehicle fires caused by mechanical or electrical failures or malfunctions. Maintenance is important throughout the vehicle’s years of use. So... no... not from accidents, but from maintenance neglect (as I already said). Not even remotely similar. These Tesla's burst into flames upon impact, trapping the occupants inside and dooming them to death. From your own source again: > EV fires can occur: > 1. When a vehicle is stationary. Extreme temperatures, high humidity, internal cell failure, and abuse of a LIB at some prior time can all cause such fires. > 2. When the EV is charging due to overcharging or problems with the charging stations or cables. > 3. After a traffic crash or other abuse does sufficient damage to cause ignition during or immediately after the crash. > 4. When an LIB reignites after an initial fire has been handled. > 5. Due to external factors, such as arson So... what is the point you are trying to make here?
        dv_dt 6y ago
        > Collisions were the leading cause of vehicle fires that resulted in death. The very next sentence after your first selected quote. You are picking an choosing data due to some very obvious bias. I don't think we can continue a productive conversation here. Bye.

by dv_dt 6y ago

Alupis 6y ago

There's a big difference between neglecting maintenance on a vehicle until it overheats enough to catch fire, and a vehicle which bursts into flames regularly upon impact while people are trapped inside. We get you like Tesla... but that doesn't excuse being deliberately obtuse. You cannot hand wave away these people that were stuck inside a fire bomb of a vehicle which required about 20 fire trucks worth of water[1] to extinguish the flames... For what should have been a routine accident response. The people inside, if still alive, had no chance of survival. That's really bad... [1] https://www.solonohio.org/203/Fire-Trucks#:~:text=Contemporary%20fire%20engines%20carry%20their,between%201%2C000%20gpm%20-%202%2C000%20gpm https://www.solonohio.org/203/Fire-Trucks#:~:text=Contempora....

dv_dt 6y ago
Looking at the quantitative picture and thinking systematically is trying to be obtuse? I would also think about gas tanker fires and the systematic reduction of those on the types of vehicles on the road with more electric vehicles. Many gas automotive fires don't have to do with maintenance either - that seems like a really odd assumption.
- Alupis 6y ago
  Do you have any evidence to backup your assertions? You stated upthread that you'd guess gasoline fueled vehicles catch fire more frequently than EV vehicles... you're going to need evidence to backup such an outlandish claim, and the cause of the fire would also need to be an accident such as the one this Tesla was involved in. It's actually quite difficult to ignite gasoline in liquid form (which is what is in the fuel lines and fuel tank of an automobile). It must be a vapor, and it must be in the presence of an ignition source. ICE vehicles have been designed over the last 100 years to precisely not explode upon impact. Real life isn't hollywood... cars just don't explode because of an accident... you can even shoot a full gas tank with a high caliber rifle and it'll still not explode nor catch fire. The problem you are equating to vehicles just does not exist anywhere except electronic vehicles powered by these Lithium-Ion batteries... like what is found in your average Tesla.
  - dv_dt 6y ago
    https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/News-and-Research/Fire-statistics-and-reports/US-Fire-Problem/osvehiclefires.pdf https://www.nfpa.org/-/media/Files/News-and-Research/Fire-st... From the report: "Vehicle fires accounted for 16 percent of the 1.3 million fires reported to US fire departments. Vehicle fires also caused 15 percentof all civilian fire deaths and 10 percent of all reported civilian fire injuries. In 2018, only fires in one- and two- family homes claimed more lives than vehicle fires. Vehicle fires caused 4.5 times the number of deaths as nonresidential structure fires and 1.6 times the number of apartment fire deaths."
    - Alupis 6y ago
      From your own source: > The leading causes of vehicle fires were mechanical failures or malfunctions and electrical failures or malfunctions. Older vehicles accounted for three-quarters of the highway vehicle fires caused by mechanical or electrical failures or malfunctions. Maintenance is important throughout the vehicle’s years of use. So... no... not from accidents, but from maintenance neglect (as I already said). Not even remotely similar. These Tesla's burst into flames upon impact, trapping the occupants inside and dooming them to death. From your own source again: > EV fires can occur: > 1. When a vehicle is stationary. Extreme temperatures, high humidity, internal cell failure, and abuse of a LIB at some prior time can all cause such fires. > 2. When the EV is charging due to overcharging or problems with the charging stations or cables. > 3. After a traffic crash or other abuse does sufficient damage to cause ignition during or immediately after the crash. > 4. When an LIB reignites after an initial fire has been handled. > 5. Due to external factors, such as arson So... what is the point you are trying to make here?
      - dv_dt 6y ago
        > Collisions were the leading cause of vehicle fires that resulted in death. The very next sentence after your first selected quote. You are picking an choosing data due to some very obvious bias. I don't think we can continue a productive conversation here. Bye.