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That's just not true. Nortel collapsed due to its own terrible management, including a massive accounting scandal. Years later, a former Nortel exec tried to pi

That's just not true. Nortel collapsed due to its own terrible management, including a massive accounting scandal. Years later, a former Nortel exec tried to pin the blame on Chinese hackers.

boringg 6y ago
Nortel collapse has many reasons that I am not debating. The stealing of IP and then undercutting the bids of Nortel with the same tech but cheaper is where Huawei got their break. My point is if thats a starting point as a company what kind of culture is breed from it and what does that say about the current situation
- DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
  > The stealing of IP and then undercutting the bids of Nortel with the same tech but cheaper is where Huawei got their break. There are a lot of unsubstantiated claims here. First of all, the stealing of IP. Next, that this is how Huawei got their break. As far as I understand it, Huawei grew by developing cheap telephone switches in the 1980s and early 1990s, long before it had anything to do with Nortel. Huawei focused on relatively simple components that it could manufacture more cheaply than Western competitors, and it gained market share inside China. It only moved up the value chain as its revenue increased and it had more ability to spend on R&D. By the time Huawei was beginning to move into more advanced markets, Nortel was already a basket case. The strange thing to me is that all these claims that Huawei made it because they supposedly stole from Nortel seem to have appeared in the 2010s, long after Nortel's demise, and they're incredibly vague. By contrast, analyses of Huawei's early history that I've seen barely mention Nortel: [1]. 1. https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/legacy_files/files/publication/130215_competitiveness_Huawei_casestudy_Web.pdf https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/legac...
  - boringg 6y ago
    I think this article sums it up effectively. Economic espionage on the behalf of state funding the company and corporate espionage state sponsored hacking of Nortel from 2000 to 2009 and then hiring 20 scientists from Nortel. My argument isn't about Nortel its about the behavior of Huawei and why it isn't a trusted company. https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/did-a-chinese-hack-kill-canada-s-greatest-tech-company-1.1459269 https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/did-a-chinese-hack-kill-canada-s...
    - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
      Poaching employees from a competitor is not economic espionage. It's extremely common. And then here's the key line: > No one knows who managed to hack Nortel or where that data went in China. This is all so vague, whereas the reasons for Huawei's growth and Nortel's demise are so much more concrete. For Huawei, the ability to capture a sizeable chunk of the market in China for cheap telephone switches, aided by its lower labor costs, better knowledge of the local market, and some level of protectionism. For Nortel, serious mismanagement and a financial scandal. The thesis of the article, that economic espionage in the 2000s did in Nortel, is not plausible. It just looks like blame-shifting from a former Nortel employee, which Bloomberg decided to trumpet during a time (2000) when the US government was waging was a major anti-Huawei campaign.
      - boringg 6y ago
        Probably all of our point are true to a point and all contribute. Again I’m not arguing about nortels downfall (which you seem to be focused on maybe because that is a lot easier to discuss than huaweis trustworthiness), I’m pointing to why Huawei is not a trusted company. If you can convince me of it’s trustworthiness please do - otherwise I will rely on the multiple sources of material that seem to point to its connections to the Chinese government. And yes most state sponsored hacks are difficult to figure out exactly the source and end use of the data. Look at what’s happening right now with the solar winds back for instance.
        emodendroket 6y ago

That's just not true. Nortel collapsed due to its own terrible management, including a massive accounting scandal. Years later, a former Nortel exec tried to pin the blame on Chinese hackers.

boringg 6y ago

Nortel collapse has many reasons that I am not debating. The stealing of IP and then undercutting the bids of Nortel with the same tech but cheaper is where Huawei got their break. My point is if thats a starting point as a company what kind of culture is breed from it and what does that say about the current situation

DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
> The stealing of IP and then undercutting the bids of Nortel with the same tech but cheaper is where Huawei got their break. There are a lot of unsubstantiated claims here. First of all, the stealing of IP. Next, that this is how Huawei got their break. As far as I understand it, Huawei grew by developing cheap telephone switches in the 1980s and early 1990s, long before it had anything to do with Nortel. Huawei focused on relatively simple components that it could manufacture more cheaply than Western competitors, and it gained market share inside China. It only moved up the value chain as its revenue increased and it had more ability to spend on R&D. By the time Huawei was beginning to move into more advanced markets, Nortel was already a basket case. The strange thing to me is that all these claims that Huawei made it because they supposedly stole from Nortel seem to have appeared in the 2010s, long after Nortel's demise, and they're incredibly vague. By contrast, analyses of Huawei's early history that I've seen barely mention Nortel: [1]. 1. https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/legacy_files/files/publication/130215_competitiveness_Huawei_casestudy_Web.pdf https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/legac...
- boringg 6y ago
  I think this article sums it up effectively. Economic espionage on the behalf of state funding the company and corporate espionage state sponsored hacking of Nortel from 2000 to 2009 and then hiring 20 scientists from Nortel. My argument isn't about Nortel its about the behavior of Huawei and why it isn't a trusted company. https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/did-a-chinese-hack-kill-canada-s-greatest-tech-company-1.1459269 https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/did-a-chinese-hack-kill-canada-s...
  - DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
    Poaching employees from a competitor is not economic espionage. It's extremely common. And then here's the key line: > No one knows who managed to hack Nortel or where that data went in China. This is all so vague, whereas the reasons for Huawei's growth and Nortel's demise are so much more concrete. For Huawei, the ability to capture a sizeable chunk of the market in China for cheap telephone switches, aided by its lower labor costs, better knowledge of the local market, and some level of protectionism. For Nortel, serious mismanagement and a financial scandal. The thesis of the article, that economic espionage in the 2000s did in Nortel, is not plausible. It just looks like blame-shifting from a former Nortel employee, which Bloomberg decided to trumpet during a time (2000) when the US government was waging was a major anti-Huawei campaign.
    - boringg 6y ago
      Probably all of our point are true to a point and all contribute. Again I’m not arguing about nortels downfall (which you seem to be focused on maybe because that is a lot easier to discuss than huaweis trustworthiness), I’m pointing to why Huawei is not a trusted company. If you can convince me of it’s trustworthiness please do - otherwise I will rely on the multiple sources of material that seem to point to its connections to the Chinese government. And yes most state sponsored hacks are difficult to figure out exactly the source and end use of the data. Look at what’s happening right now with the solar winds back for instance.
      - emodendroket 6y ago