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> Implicit Downranking of Topics Around Diversity and Inclusion > Likewise, topics around diversity and inclusion in tech have gained lots of visibility over th
by deanCommie 6y ago
> Implicit Downranking of Topics Around Diversity and Inclusion
> Likewise, topics around diversity and inclusion in tech have gained lots of visibility over the past few years. However, despite these discussions not being off-topic, they tend to be flagged to death by users regardless. Unfortunately. (Moderators occasionally unkill such threads if they see it in time, although it rarely sticks).
This is a very interesting subject. I would dare say that the majority of technologists (by pure numbers) find the human, philosophical, and psychological impacts of technology less interesting than the pure technical considerations. (Older and more senior technologists gravitate in the opposite direction)
Yet, the most interesting and in-depth hackernews discussions directly touch up on privacy, censorship, employee motivation, the entrepreneurial mindset, managerial skills and lack therefor, regulation, corporate responsibility. All of these are strictly "on-topic" by the definition on https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html:
> On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.
So clearly, this community is passionate and interested in a wide range of "fuzzy" non-STEM subjects.
Yet when it comes to D&I, the community is primarily disinterested and not intellectually curious, or has already concluded that anyone who IS interested is pushing a purely "political" agenda. Therefore, the only "interesting" stories that get upvoted are those that butt against the current cultural movement (e.g. defending James Damore, RMS, etc).
I am personally very intellectually curious about this very pattern, but I appear to be in the minority.
I wonder if people on HackerNews are aware that a huge percentage of female and minority engineers that I know find the HN community discussions completely disreputable and unappealing. And it's a direct consequence of how they treat these subjects as "uninteresting" and "off topic", because to the dominant in-group these subjects are just not relevant.
Personally, as a technologist, a "hacker" (Whatever that may mean, but i identify strongly with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_culture), I consider this blind spot in this community a "bug". I don't know if it's a fixable one, as any attempts to mitigate it would clearly be perceived as intrusion and a restriction on the individual freedoms of expression. But the status quo is the status quo, to the point that even this manual of undocumented "features and behaviours" has to call it out.
- dijit 6y agoThe problem is that D&I threads are _not_ intellectually curious. People are too emotionally charged to have a genuine, dispassionate and reasoned discussion about it.
- deanCommie 6y agoWhy does one preclude another? One can be intellectually curious while also being emotionally charged and passionate. There is genuinely outrageous behaviour out there in the world. China is orchestrating a modern genocide. Russia is maneuvering to violate international sovereignty. The USA has a humanitarian crisis at its border. And there is a climate change emergency being mostly ignored. It's reasonable to have an emotional charge to all these discussions even while looking for logical solutions to these problem. The other issue is that a lot of people don't classify behaviours as "emotional" consistently. The prototypical example is feminine expressions ("tears") are deemed emotional while masculine expressions ("anger") are not. That may seem ludicrous but it happens on this site too. People will go on tense emotion-laden tirades defending personal freedom or outrage over the treatment of <insert problematic public figure>, and they are heavily upvoted and deemed "intellectually curious". While those that are pointing out the problematic behaviour and the impact it may have had through heartfelt experience stories are deemed "emotionally charged".
- dang 6y agoYou've brought up a number of good and subtle points in this thread, so please don't take this comment as a generic disagreement—this stuff is complicated. It's not only hard to get right, it's hard to even discuss precisely. I just want to mention that > People will go on tense emotion-laden tirades defending personal freedom or outrage over the treatment of <insert problematic public figure>, and they are heavily upvoted and deemed "intellectually curious" ... isn't really accurate. Those tirades are not deemed intellectually curious, either by mods or by the majority of the community. The vast majority of such threads have been flagged. I wrote about this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26713636 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26713636.