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I don't get it. Won't your logic imply that all locksmiths are trespassers now? Because, you know, they have unauthorized access to most premises secured by l

I don't get it. Won't your logic imply that all locksmiths are trespassers now? Because, you know, they have unauthorized access to most premises secured by locks.

throwaway4china 6y ago
No, just the locksmiths with a bad reputation. Would you hire a locksmith if he had a record of stalking people?
- RyEgswuCsn 6y ago
  I probably won't. Has this particular locksmith (Huawei) been shown to stalk people? Who are the people that accused the locksmith of stalking? Are they competitors? Should I trust their words?
  - throwaway4china 6y ago
    Huawei is a Chinese corporation. Legally it must report data to the CCP when requested. The CCP is known to commit human rights violations, especially against it's Uighurs population. Providing data to them is furthering these human rights violations. Yes you can say other countries spy on citizens, but what the country does with the data is an important distinction. Furthermore, there's usually a judicial process to request this data in other countries. A warrant is needed from a judge, and even still any action must go through the legal process. Such is not true for the CCP. From political dissent to being a minority can be your crime, there is no jury, there is no trial.
    - RyEgswuCsn 6y ago
      To be honest I do wonder what other countries' government do with the data they have gathered on their citizens as well as foreign personnel. I guess it must be that the justice league countries are using those data to protect their citizens and defend human rights across the globe.
      - throwaway4china 6y ago
        It's more the structure of the government rather than a justice league. The governments are held accountable by the people. Such is not true in China. You don't have to wonder what China does with it's data. They track and imprison people for their dissent and ethnic status. There is no trial by jury. You are sent off to a work camp. That does not happen in modern democracies. If you have evidence of such, please present it. Proof against CCP: https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/ https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/ Just to get ahead of this but some people like to say you can compare the US immigration centers to the CCP concentration camps. This is a false equivalency and a common CCP-propaganda talking point. People willingly migrate to the US and are relieved when they hit these camps, they turn themselves in on purpose. They are processed and either deported or released and await trial to determine their asylum claim. None are there by force, it is temporary to process them. The CCP takes people from their population by force and keeps them in work camps. Notably they take people just for being an ethnic minority. This is all without trial by jury.
        RyEgswuCsn 6y ago
        Well I guess Wikipedia is a starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Human_rights_abuses_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Human_rights_abuses_i... About the US immigration centres --- I am not sure if those who suffered there would had come to those camps if they had knew what's happening in them, especially the children.
        throwaway4china 6y ago
        Sure pick something from the list that is an ongoing human rights violation from the government that they are using data harvesting to continue. Bonus points if it's equivalent to GENOCIDE, which is what the ONGOING human rights violation in China is. The data going to them helps them continue this GENOCIDE. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide_of_Uyghurs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide_of_Uyghurs You like linking to wikipedia, which article from the list you linked is equivalent to my link? Must meet the requirements of it being CURRENT and caused by the government DIRECTLY. All cultures have a bad and violent history. What matters is your current morals.
NicoJuicy 6y ago
It's more like a locksmith that comes into your house when you didn't call this time. And installed the first time they came, a device to check everyone that comes in ( since they discovered an Chinese application that listens to phone calls) > En ze doen nog een ernstige ontdekking. De zes Chinese medewerkers werken met een programma dat hen in staat stelt om elk telefoongesprek dat via KPN gaat mee te luisteren. Ook dat is in strijd met afspraken. Deze mogelijkheid houdt in dat Huawei-medewerkers waar ook ter wereld KPN-nummers kunnen meeluisteren. Dat betekent dat ze delen van het gesprek of het hele gesprek kunnen volgen zonder dat de bellers of iemand bij KPN op de hoogte is. > Huawei heeft contractueel de mogelijkheid om voor kwaliteitsdoeleinden een gesprek kortstondig – enkele seconden – te volgen, dat heet inluisteren. Het hele gesprek volgen – meeluisteren – is verboden. Een bron: ‘Ze konden nummers tappen, ze konden overal ter wereld meeluisteren, KPN had geen idee wat Huawei op het netwerk deed.’ They could tap phones from all over the world. KPN had no idea what Huawei did on their network.
- amaccuish 6y ago
  > It's more like a locksmith that comes into your house when you didn't call this time. And installed the first time they came, a device to check everyone that comes in ( since they discovered an Chinese application that listens to phone calls) It's more like a locksmith coming into your home because you asked him to manage the locks and ensure they were in working condition... and surprise he keeps them in working condition. In other news, USA asks Cisco to build routers for NSA network and accuses NSA of having too much access, which they could have used.
  - NicoJuicy 6y ago
    Huawei had unauthorized access from China and they circumvented the password policy from KPN. They may have eavesdropped, because they had an application that could listen to every phone call on the KPN network. Which was forbidden. https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/huawei-kon-alle-gesprekken-van-mobiele-kpn-klanten-afluisteren-inclusief-die-van-de-premier~bd1aece1/ https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/huawei-kon-alle...

I don't get it. Won't your logic imply that all locksmiths are trespassers now? Because, you know, they have unauthorized access to most premises secured by locks.

throwaway4china 6y ago

No, just the locksmiths with a bad reputation. Would you hire a locksmith if he had a record of stalking people?

RyEgswuCsn 6y ago
I probably won't. Has this particular locksmith (Huawei) been shown to stalk people? Who are the people that accused the locksmith of stalking? Are they competitors? Should I trust their words?
- throwaway4china 6y ago
  Huawei is a Chinese corporation. Legally it must report data to the CCP when requested. The CCP is known to commit human rights violations, especially against it's Uighurs population. Providing data to them is furthering these human rights violations. Yes you can say other countries spy on citizens, but what the country does with the data is an important distinction. Furthermore, there's usually a judicial process to request this data in other countries. A warrant is needed from a judge, and even still any action must go through the legal process. Such is not true for the CCP. From political dissent to being a minority can be your crime, there is no jury, there is no trial.
  - RyEgswuCsn 6y ago
    To be honest I do wonder what other countries' government do with the data they have gathered on their citizens as well as foreign personnel. I guess it must be that the justice league countries are using those data to protect their citizens and defend human rights across the globe.
    - throwaway4china 6y ago
      It's more the structure of the government rather than a justice league. The governments are held accountable by the people. Such is not true in China. You don't have to wonder what China does with it's data. They track and imprison people for their dissent and ethnic status. There is no trial by jury. You are sent off to a work camp. That does not happen in modern democracies. If you have evidence of such, please present it. Proof against CCP: https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/ https://xjdp.aspi.org.au/ Just to get ahead of this but some people like to say you can compare the US immigration centers to the CCP concentration camps. This is a false equivalency and a common CCP-propaganda talking point. People willingly migrate to the US and are relieved when they hit these camps, they turn themselves in on purpose. They are processed and either deported or released and await trial to determine their asylum claim. None are there by force, it is temporary to process them. The CCP takes people from their population by force and keeps them in work camps. Notably they take people just for being an ethnic minority. This is all without trial by jury.
      - RyEgswuCsn 6y ago
        Well I guess Wikipedia is a starting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Human_rights_abuses_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Human_rights_abuses_i... About the US immigration centres --- I am not sure if those who suffered there would had come to those camps if they had knew what's happening in them, especially the children.
        throwaway4china 6y ago
        Sure pick something from the list that is an ongoing human rights violation from the government that they are using data harvesting to continue. Bonus points if it's equivalent to GENOCIDE, which is what the ONGOING human rights violation in China is. The data going to them helps them continue this GENOCIDE. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide_of_Uyghurs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide_of_Uyghurs You like linking to wikipedia, which article from the list you linked is equivalent to my link? Must meet the requirements of it being CURRENT and caused by the government DIRECTLY. All cultures have a bad and violent history. What matters is your current morals.

NicoJuicy 6y ago

It's more like a locksmith that comes into your house when you didn't call this time. And installed the first time they came, a device to check everyone that comes in ( since they discovered an Chinese application that listens to phone calls) > En ze doen nog een ernstige ontdekking. De zes Chinese medewerkers werken met een programma dat hen in staat stelt om elk telefoongesprek dat via KPN gaat mee te luisteren. Ook dat is in strijd met afspraken. Deze mogelijkheid houdt in dat Huawei-medewerkers waar ook ter wereld KPN-nummers kunnen meeluisteren. Dat betekent dat ze delen van het gesprek of het hele gesprek kunnen volgen zonder dat de bellers of iemand bij KPN op de hoogte is. > Huawei heeft contractueel de mogelijkheid om voor kwaliteitsdoeleinden een gesprek kortstondig – enkele seconden – te volgen, dat heet inluisteren. Het hele gesprek volgen – meeluisteren – is verboden. Een bron: ‘Ze konden nummers tappen, ze konden overal ter wereld meeluisteren, KPN had geen idee wat Huawei op het netwerk deed.’ They could tap phones from all over the world. KPN had no idea what Huawei did on their network.

amaccuish 6y ago
> It's more like a locksmith that comes into your house when you didn't call this time. And installed the first time they came, a device to check everyone that comes in ( since they discovered an Chinese application that listens to phone calls) It's more like a locksmith coming into your home because you asked him to manage the locks and ensure they were in working condition... and surprise he keeps them in working condition. In other news, USA asks Cisco to build routers for NSA network and accuses NSA of having too much access, which they could have used.
- NicoJuicy 6y ago
  Huawei had unauthorized access from China and they circumvented the password policy from KPN. They may have eavesdropped, because they had an application that could listen to every phone call on the KPN network. Which was forbidden. https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/huawei-kon-alle-gesprekken-van-mobiele-kpn-klanten-afluisteren-inclusief-die-van-de-premier~bd1aece1/ https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/huawei-kon-alle...