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The story was a moving one and I hope Vargas gets to stay. With that said, I think illegal immigration creates all kinds of societal problems and is unfair to

The story was a moving one and I hope Vargas gets to stay. With that said, I think illegal immigration creates all kinds of societal problems and is unfair to legal immigrants. The problem it creates is that there's enormous stress on those that are illegal. They live in the shadows and can be taken advantage of. My own personal experience was driving in LA and being rear-ended by someone who then fled the scene (most likely illegal). They work for less than minimum wage and don't cooperate with law enforcement for fear of deportation. I'm a child of legal immigrants so I'm naturally biased. There is a legal system and many people every year try to go through that system like my parents did. I see illegal immigrants as "cutting in line" and I see nothing fair about it. But I'm also human. People like Vargas had no choice (sent here as a kid) and has made a life here. I also sympathize those that flee poverty, crime and even wanting a brighter future. I also grew up in LA and know that many illegal immigrants live decent lives.. heck some of my friends are probably undocumented. But completely opening the borders is not feasible. Creating systems that encourage illegal immigration only make the problem worse (and exacerbate the problems mentioned above).

ido 15y ago
There is a legal system and many people every year try to go through that system like my parents did. I see illegal immigrants as "cutting in line" and I see nothing fair about it. The problem is that if you are not a student there is basically no way to legally immigrate except: 1. Marrying an american 2. Indentured servitude via H1-B (hard to get, and if you leave your job/get fired you have to find a new job in two weeks or leave) It used to be a lot easier in the past.
- l0c0b0x 15y ago
  You forgot sponsoring/petitioning a relative AND the visa lottery (a relative of mine was lucky enough to receive one of these, was able to bring his whole family here, eventually). It has taken us 20 years to bring about 35-40 relatives from South America (more are waiting--in line)... it takes time, money and a LOT of patience. Also helps if you don't get into problems with the law.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- freshfunk 15y ago
  If you think the privilege of an H1B is "indentured servitude", it seems that immigration is not for you. I don't expect to enter a foreign country and immediately have all the same worker rights as a citizen of that country.
  - dennisgorelik 15y ago
    Could you explain why immigrants should not have equal rights with born in the US citizens?
    - freshfunk 15y ago
      Well 1) that is the rule of law. It's not just the case for the US but many other modern nations in this world. 2) Being a citizen doesn't just have benefits but also responsibilities. This is why we pledge allegiance. At age 21 I had to register for the civil service. That means that if my country goes to war and I'm drafted then I must fight and possibly die for my country. An illegal immigrant will not be drafted. It also means other things I'm bound under federal law like paying taxes. There are also other civil duties like being on a jury to judge my fellow citizens. As a citizen, I'm bound by the laws on our constitution and those created by our legislature. 3) The privileges of a citizen allow them to contribute to the way our democracy functions including the right to vote. An illegal immigrant cannot vote. The rest of my argument was already stated above to you. If we completely open the borders to everyone, then our government wouldn't even be able to serve the current legal citizens. You may dislike the system but in other countries such as Japan and Germany it is even more difficult and exclusionary. They are based on parentage and while that make more sense to you, it actually ends up leaving large classes of immigrants unnaturalized.
      - dennisgorelik 15y ago
        1) So basically your explanation goes like that: "Discrimination against immigrants is justified, because it's a law and other countries discriminate even worse than the US". I hoped for somewhat better reasoning than that. If you take "it's a law and it must stay unchanged" principle to the heart, then you would be dead by now killed as invader by one of American-Indian tribes. 2) "Opening borders to everyone" has very little to do with "Stopping discrimination against immigrants".
jacobolus 15y ago
The problem with your “cutting in line is bad” line is that people’s choice to immigrate without papers has almost nothing to do with “lines” or policies or lawbreaking, and everything to do with the much more powerfully compelling economic organization of the world (and particularly North America). 1) United States agriculture absolutely depends on a certain amount of unskilled labor to function, for which the United States has been importing Mexican laborers in large numbers for at least 80 years. Ending this importation of labor would literally cause the agriculture system in this country to break down. 2) Many parts of Mexico have been economically depressed with high underemployment/unemployment for decades. There are physically too many people for the quantity of available jobs. The undocumented immigrants I know (including my parents’ godson who is a migrant agricultural laborer, including several guys who stayed in my family’s house for a few months in the early 1990s, including 30-50% of young men from many indigenous communities in southern Mexico, etc.) DO NOT want to leave their parents, their wives, their children, their communities to go to a strange place where they do not speak the language to do hard labor, missing their children’s early years, DO NOT want to take on tremendous personal financial risk in the form of huge loans from loan sharks who will happily repossess their family’s home or start sending goons to beat people up if the money isn’t repaid. Unfortunately, the choice is often hover-your-whole-life-just-above-or-below-subsistence-level (i.e. take on personally degrading and dangerous jobs to feed your family, risk starvation, etc.), or clear out and go somewhere else. If the outlet of leaving to the United States were unavailable as an escape valve, I’m quite convinced many would end up either starving or turning to other kinds of desperate action. In other words, not really a choice at all. You’re damn right that a system that has people staying in this country without papers isn’t fair and allows those people to be taken advantage of. You know what else isn’t fair and allows people to be taken advantage of? The whole global economic order. [Note: this is not intended as a call to any particular action; just trying to state facts.]
- akat 15y ago
  Anyone can do (almost) anything illegal and blame it on "Global economic order". Does it really justify the illegal actions?
- freshfunk 15y ago
onlineph 15y ago
If the US would dump Jose Vargas, I assure you, his home country would gladly accept him and big opportunity awaits him here. For sure the big papers and TV network here in the Philippines would race to get Jose to join them. JV, it's time to face another world. We got your back!

ido 15y ago

There is a legal system and many people every year try to go through that system like my parents did. I see illegal immigrants as "cutting in line" and I see nothing fair about it. The problem is that if you are not a student there is basically no way to legally immigrate except: 1. Marrying an american 2. Indentured servitude via H1-B (hard to get, and if you leave your job/get fired you have to find a new job in two weeks or leave) It used to be a lot easier in the past.

l0c0b0x 15y ago
You forgot sponsoring/petitioning a relative AND the visa lottery (a relative of mine was lucky enough to receive one of these, was able to bring his whole family here, eventually). It has taken us 20 years to bring about 35-40 relatives from South America (more are waiting--in line)... it takes time, money and a LOT of patience. Also helps if you don't get into problems with the law.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
freshfunk 15y ago
If you think the privilege of an H1B is "indentured servitude", it seems that immigration is not for you. I don't expect to enter a foreign country and immediately have all the same worker rights as a citizen of that country.
- dennisgorelik 15y ago
  Could you explain why immigrants should not have equal rights with born in the US citizens?
  - freshfunk 15y ago
    Well 1) that is the rule of law. It's not just the case for the US but many other modern nations in this world. 2) Being a citizen doesn't just have benefits but also responsibilities. This is why we pledge allegiance. At age 21 I had to register for the civil service. That means that if my country goes to war and I'm drafted then I must fight and possibly die for my country. An illegal immigrant will not be drafted. It also means other things I'm bound under federal law like paying taxes. There are also other civil duties like being on a jury to judge my fellow citizens. As a citizen, I'm bound by the laws on our constitution and those created by our legislature. 3) The privileges of a citizen allow them to contribute to the way our democracy functions including the right to vote. An illegal immigrant cannot vote. The rest of my argument was already stated above to you. If we completely open the borders to everyone, then our government wouldn't even be able to serve the current legal citizens. You may dislike the system but in other countries such as Japan and Germany it is even more difficult and exclusionary. They are based on parentage and while that make more sense to you, it actually ends up leaving large classes of immigrants unnaturalized.
    - dennisgorelik 15y ago
      1) So basically your explanation goes like that: "Discrimination against immigrants is justified, because it's a law and other countries discriminate even worse than the US". I hoped for somewhat better reasoning than that. If you take "it's a law and it must stay unchanged" principle to the heart, then you would be dead by now killed as invader by one of American-Indian tribes. 2) "Opening borders to everyone" has very little to do with "Stopping discrimination against immigrants".

jacobolus 15y ago

The problem with your “cutting in line is bad” line is that people’s choice to immigrate without papers has almost nothing to do with “lines” or policies or lawbreaking, and everything to do with the much more powerfully compelling economic organization of the world (and particularly North America). 1) United States agriculture absolutely depends on a certain amount of unskilled labor to function, for which the United States has been importing Mexican laborers in large numbers for at least 80 years. Ending this importation of labor would literally cause the agriculture system in this country to break down. 2) Many parts of Mexico have been economically depressed with high underemployment/unemployment for decades. There are physically too many people for the quantity of available jobs. The undocumented immigrants I know (including my parents’ godson who is a migrant agricultural laborer, including several guys who stayed in my family’s house for a few months in the early 1990s, including 30-50% of young men from many indigenous communities in southern Mexico, etc.) DO NOT want to leave their parents, their wives, their children, their communities to go to a strange place where they do not speak the language to do hard labor, missing their children’s early years, DO NOT want to take on tremendous personal financial risk in the form of huge loans from loan sharks who will happily repossess their family’s home or start sending goons to beat people up if the money isn’t repaid. Unfortunately, the choice is often hover-your-whole-life-just-above-or-below-subsistence-level (i.e. take on personally degrading and dangerous jobs to feed your family, risk starvation, etc.), or clear out and go somewhere else. If the outlet of leaving to the United States were unavailable as an escape valve, I’m quite convinced many would end up either starving or turning to other kinds of desperate action. In other words, not really a choice at all. You’re damn right that a system that has people staying in this country without papers isn’t fair and allows those people to be taken advantage of. You know what else isn’t fair and allows people to be taken advantage of? The whole global economic order. [Note: this is not intended as a call to any particular action; just trying to state facts.]

akat 15y ago
Anyone can do (almost) anything illegal and blame it on "Global economic order". Does it really justify the illegal actions?
freshfunk 15y ago

onlineph 15y ago

If the US would dump Jose Vargas, I assure you, his home country would gladly accept him and big opportunity awaits him here. For sure the big papers and TV network here in the Philippines would race to get Jose to join them. JV, it's time to face another world. We got your back!