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Does Firefox support autoupdating? I feel like Chrome's aggressive update and EOL cycles only work because it updates in the background, so users never have to

Does Firefox support autoupdating? I feel like Chrome's aggressive update and EOL cycles only work because it updates in the background, so users never have to worry about what version they're running.

azakai 15y ago
The goal is to autoupdate silently like Chrome. This is being implemented in stages, it isn't all there yet, but updates are already simpler than before.
- thaumaturgy 15y ago
  I think Mozilla has seriously mis-predicted what this is going to do to their adoption in the very large user base of people who were convinced to move from IE to Firefox by some well-meaning computer tech. Considering that the majority of our clients really dislike it when software changes without their specifically asking it to, we can no longer recommend Firefox to our clients. ...which is unfortunate, because AB+ made a really nice first line of defense against malicious ads on websites.
  - CrazedGeek 15y ago
    You can turn it off in Options -> Advanced -> Update, if it bothers your clients that much. FWIW, I can't actually notice a difference between Firefox 4 and 5 UI-wise (I'm sure there are some changes, but they must be incredibly subtle).
    - thaumaturgy 15y ago
      And we would happily do exactly that, except that then our clients won't receive any further security updates once the next version comes out. Given how hostile the web has become lately, we can't in good conscience recommend that, either. So we have three choices: 1. Leave clients with Firefox with updates turned on, continue receiving requests to reverse recent upgrades or gripes about it constantly updating on them -> clients are generally unhappy, but reasonably safe on the web. 2. Leave clients with Firefox with updates turned off, subsequently manually manage software updates for three counties' worth of clients -> either bleed money like crazy or try to justify billing our time to our clients for this hassle every six months. (This isn't quite as bad as it sounds at first, because we do try to maintain contact with every one of our clients at least once every couple of months, but it still becomes one more item on our checklist for every single computer we touch while on-site.) 3. Recommend some other software instead. IE? Laughable. Chrome? Same problems. Opera? Guess I need to see how they're doing these days.
      - CrazedGeek 15y ago
        Iron, maybe? It's Chrome minus the updater and a few other things: http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron.php http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron.php
        thaumaturgy 15y ago
        I haven't heard of that one and am looking at it now, thank you. I'm also considering a near-term fork of Firefox.
  - ghshephard 15y ago
    "Considering that the majority of our clients really dislike it when software changes without their specifically asking it to" - I suspect that's going to change, it's unclear to me why your clients they they are more sophisticated than Google/Firefox's release engineers when it comes to determining when to upgrade their browser - software _should_ automatically eliminate security flaws and update bugs. I'm not saying your clients don't have dislikes right now - I'm saying they'll need to be educated to stop having them.
    - thaumaturgy 15y ago
      This is pretty much the most common response from the tech literate: "everybody should be tech literate". My little company has had insane year-over-year growth for the last three years, almost entirely on word-of-mouth referrals, in a largely stagnant industry (IT support for SMB & individuals), in part because I think that most of our clients have better things to do than spend their time being educated on how they should appreciate frequent software updates. It seems to be a nearly impossible challenge to convince software developers and others on the leading edge of tech that tech is not the most important thing in most peoples' lives. There is probably at least one thing in your life that you are only sorta-kinda OK at. For me, it's cooking. Actually, I'm worse than sorta-kinda OK, but I try sometimes. So, I try to keep in mind just how much it would infuriate me if, every single time I went into the cupboard and pulled out a frying pan, the frying pan came with an entirely new set of instructions versus the last time I used it. People who have used computers for long enough have developed a skill that they don't even realize they have: they can glance at a screen and take in everything on the screen, and sort out what's important and what's pertinent and what's relevant and what's not, on a subconscious level. For infrequent computer users -- by far the bulk of our market -- that skill doesn't exist. They have to consciously read every single word on the screen to find what they're looking for. So when things change even in the slightest, it is extremely disorienting to them, and the fact that things never stop changing is a source of extreme, frequent, and serious frustration for them. What may be, for you, a UI change that is so minor that you don't even notice it -- a change in the background color of an alert box, say -- is a change that makes the software into something completely new for our clients. I think it is tremendously arrogant to leap to the conclusion that users don't want security updates because "they [think] they are more sophisticated than Google/Firefox's release engineers". No, they want security updates. They love security updates -- when security updates only fix bugs, patch holes, and don't cause any other problems or incompatibilities whatsoever. No, the problem is that Google & Firefox's release engineers don't distinguish between UI and behavioral updates, and security updates, and then think that software updates are a matter of sophistication -- and not simply a matter of serious annoyance for a very large number of people. I argue these points frequently. It almost always fails to have an impact on the person I'm talking to, even though I'm merely communicating with the voice of many very frustrated computer users. I am beginning to think that the only way to get this point across will be to lead a mob of everyday computer users to the offices of various software companies.

azakai 15y ago

The goal is to autoupdate silently like Chrome. This is being implemented in stages, it isn't all there yet, but updates are already simpler than before.

thaumaturgy 15y ago
I think Mozilla has seriously mis-predicted what this is going to do to their adoption in the very large user base of people who were convinced to move from IE to Firefox by some well-meaning computer tech. Considering that the majority of our clients really dislike it when software changes without their specifically asking it to, we can no longer recommend Firefox to our clients. ...which is unfortunate, because AB+ made a really nice first line of defense against malicious ads on websites.
- CrazedGeek 15y ago
  You can turn it off in Options -> Advanced -> Update, if it bothers your clients that much. FWIW, I can't actually notice a difference between Firefox 4 and 5 UI-wise (I'm sure there are some changes, but they must be incredibly subtle).
  - thaumaturgy 15y ago
    And we would happily do exactly that, except that then our clients won't receive any further security updates once the next version comes out. Given how hostile the web has become lately, we can't in good conscience recommend that, either. So we have three choices: 1. Leave clients with Firefox with updates turned on, continue receiving requests to reverse recent upgrades or gripes about it constantly updating on them -> clients are generally unhappy, but reasonably safe on the web. 2. Leave clients with Firefox with updates turned off, subsequently manually manage software updates for three counties' worth of clients -> either bleed money like crazy or try to justify billing our time to our clients for this hassle every six months. (This isn't quite as bad as it sounds at first, because we do try to maintain contact with every one of our clients at least once every couple of months, but it still becomes one more item on our checklist for every single computer we touch while on-site.) 3. Recommend some other software instead. IE? Laughable. Chrome? Same problems. Opera? Guess I need to see how they're doing these days.
    - CrazedGeek 15y ago
      Iron, maybe? It's Chrome minus the updater and a few other things: http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron.php http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron.php
      - thaumaturgy 15y ago
        I haven't heard of that one and am looking at it now, thank you. I'm also considering a near-term fork of Firefox.
- ghshephard 15y ago
  "Considering that the majority of our clients really dislike it when software changes without their specifically asking it to" - I suspect that's going to change, it's unclear to me why your clients they they are more sophisticated than Google/Firefox's release engineers when it comes to determining when to upgrade their browser - software _should_ automatically eliminate security flaws and update bugs. I'm not saying your clients don't have dislikes right now - I'm saying they'll need to be educated to stop having them.
  - thaumaturgy 15y ago
    This is pretty much the most common response from the tech literate: "everybody should be tech literate". My little company has had insane year-over-year growth for the last three years, almost entirely on word-of-mouth referrals, in a largely stagnant industry (IT support for SMB & individuals), in part because I think that most of our clients have better things to do than spend their time being educated on how they should appreciate frequent software updates. It seems to be a nearly impossible challenge to convince software developers and others on the leading edge of tech that tech is not the most important thing in most peoples' lives. There is probably at least one thing in your life that you are only sorta-kinda OK at. For me, it's cooking. Actually, I'm worse than sorta-kinda OK, but I try sometimes. So, I try to keep in mind just how much it would infuriate me if, every single time I went into the cupboard and pulled out a frying pan, the frying pan came with an entirely new set of instructions versus the last time I used it. People who have used computers for long enough have developed a skill that they don't even realize they have: they can glance at a screen and take in everything on the screen, and sort out what's important and what's pertinent and what's relevant and what's not, on a subconscious level. For infrequent computer users -- by far the bulk of our market -- that skill doesn't exist. They have to consciously read every single word on the screen to find what they're looking for. So when things change even in the slightest, it is extremely disorienting to them, and the fact that things never stop changing is a source of extreme, frequent, and serious frustration for them. What may be, for you, a UI change that is so minor that you don't even notice it -- a change in the background color of an alert box, say -- is a change that makes the software into something completely new for our clients. I think it is tremendously arrogant to leap to the conclusion that users don't want security updates because "they [think] they are more sophisticated than Google/Firefox's release engineers". No, they want security updates. They love security updates -- when security updates only fix bugs, patch holes, and don't cause any other problems or incompatibilities whatsoever. No, the problem is that Google & Firefox's release engineers don't distinguish between UI and behavioral updates, and security updates, and then think that software updates are a matter of sophistication -- and not simply a matter of serious annoyance for a very large number of people. I argue these points frequently. It almost always fails to have an impact on the person I'm talking to, even though I'm merely communicating with the voice of many very frustrated computer users. I am beginning to think that the only way to get this point across will be to lead a mob of everyday computer users to the offices of various software companies.