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What happens when one of the "personal" devices gets lost? How do you authenticate to the device in the first place? I also don't feel like lugging around my e

What happens when one of the "personal" devices gets lost? How do you authenticate to the device in the first place? I also don't feel like lugging around my employer's laptop wherever I go, but I sometimes happen to need to check an email or something when I'm at a friend's house (so I can't register the device). Should I not be able to do that? > Who is still sharing a family computer and needs to switch user accounts? My client does. People work in shifts, it would make absolutely no financial sense to have double the number of computers. It would also be a pain to have to switch screens, etc. Or much more expensive to equip everyone with laptops.

bob1029 6y ago
> What happens when one of the "personal" devices gets lost? How do you authenticate to the device in the first place? The device you initially register on is the one that has access. Subsequent devices could chain off of that one. If you lose a single device and have others on the same account, it's trivial to recover. If you lose all devices on the account, it's the same scenario as forgetting your gmail password. You go to some recovery page and follow steps to prove your identity again.
- vladvasiliu 6y ago
  I've got this point, this allows you to maintain access to your accounts. But the question was more along the lines of: how do you protect the lost device from being used by the thief, thereby impersonating you? You presumably need some method to let the device know it's really you. So if it's not a password, what is it? I seem to remember an article a few years back of a group (probably the CCC, but I'm not sure) that managed to reproduce Angela Merkel's fingerprint without physical access to her fingers. Apple claims Face ID is more secure. But is it, really? I honestly don't know, and finger unlock was supposed to be secure, too. What happens if we find out it isn't?
  - bob1029 6y ago
    > You presumably need some method to let the device know it's really you. Enter literally every mobile device unlock/security scheme since this all began. Which is more secure in the average case today? A) A password or passphrase, with all of its historical flaws in aggregate. B) Apple's iOS unlock feature using a recommended/default configuration, and some 256 bit session token tucked away somewhere in secure device storage. I would personally have a hard time answering this directly. Lots of "it depends", which tells me there are contexts where each scheme can make sense. If you were to apply the spy movie aesthetic here, you would probably find it much easier to coax a password out of an unwilling participant than it would be to hack open a pile of cryptographic secrets you found laying on the street.
    - vladvasiliu 6y ago
      You do realize that B is just something on top of A, and not instead of A, right? The finger unlock of my iPhone doesn't let me do everything. There are operations for which the password is required even if you have the right fingerprint. So basically, the "security" of my phone is protected by my password. If I know the password, but I don't have the fingerprint: I don't care, I can do anything. I can even enroll the finger I have. If I have the finger but forget the password, I'm going to have a bad day since the touch ID feature requires me to input my password at least once a week and I cannot change the password or do any other sensitive operation. So how does this scheme replace passwords? Sure, it's more convenient, since people don't have to type the password 500 times a day. But will they actually use strong passwords? When I've initially set up my iPhone it asked to set up a code in addition to the fingerprint. That default was a 4 digit pin[0]. That's some high security right there. --- [0] This was some 4-5 years ago, things may have changed. I remember seeing an article grilling Apple over this default. It was fairly easy to switch to a regular password, but we're talking about the default here, which we know is what most non-technical people will use.

bob1029 6y ago

> What happens when one of the "personal" devices gets lost? How do you authenticate to the device in the first place? The device you initially register on is the one that has access. Subsequent devices could chain off of that one. If you lose a single device and have others on the same account, it's trivial to recover. If you lose all devices on the account, it's the same scenario as forgetting your gmail password. You go to some recovery page and follow steps to prove your identity again.

vladvasiliu 6y ago
I've got this point, this allows you to maintain access to your accounts. But the question was more along the lines of: how do you protect the lost device from being used by the thief, thereby impersonating you? You presumably need some method to let the device know it's really you. So if it's not a password, what is it? I seem to remember an article a few years back of a group (probably the CCC, but I'm not sure) that managed to reproduce Angela Merkel's fingerprint without physical access to her fingers. Apple claims Face ID is more secure. But is it, really? I honestly don't know, and finger unlock was supposed to be secure, too. What happens if we find out it isn't?
- bob1029 6y ago
  > You presumably need some method to let the device know it's really you. Enter literally every mobile device unlock/security scheme since this all began. Which is more secure in the average case today? A) A password or passphrase, with all of its historical flaws in aggregate. B) Apple's iOS unlock feature using a recommended/default configuration, and some 256 bit session token tucked away somewhere in secure device storage. I would personally have a hard time answering this directly. Lots of "it depends", which tells me there are contexts where each scheme can make sense. If you were to apply the spy movie aesthetic here, you would probably find it much easier to coax a password out of an unwilling participant than it would be to hack open a pile of cryptographic secrets you found laying on the street.
  - vladvasiliu 6y ago
    You do realize that B is just something on top of A, and not instead of A, right? The finger unlock of my iPhone doesn't let me do everything. There are operations for which the password is required even if you have the right fingerprint. So basically, the "security" of my phone is protected by my password. If I know the password, but I don't have the fingerprint: I don't care, I can do anything. I can even enroll the finger I have. If I have the finger but forget the password, I'm going to have a bad day since the touch ID feature requires me to input my password at least once a week and I cannot change the password or do any other sensitive operation. So how does this scheme replace passwords? Sure, it's more convenient, since people don't have to type the password 500 times a day. But will they actually use strong passwords? When I've initially set up my iPhone it asked to set up a code in addition to the fingerprint. That default was a 4 digit pin[0]. That's some high security right there. --- [0] This was some 4-5 years ago, things may have changed. I remember seeing an article grilling Apple over this default. It was fairly easy to switch to a regular password, but we're talking about the default here, which we know is what most non-technical people will use.