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Notice that there is nothing 'democratic' about this. It is large players in the economy who have unparalleled power in the market, unilaterally making a decisi

Notice that there is nothing 'democratic' about this. It is large players in the economy who have unparalleled power in the market, unilaterally making a decision.

cies 6y ago
Sadly I noticed this too. I see this as a testimony to defunct democracies, that are heavily in the pockets of those making big money off pollution.
dfxm12 6y ago
It's not democracy, but it is capitalism. You know, the adage, "vote with you wallet". The bigger your wallet, the more say you have.
adrianN 6y ago
At least it's an improvement over the usual way it works where big players with unparalleled power in the market don't care about the future and unilaterally decide that we should pollute for another decade or two.
- minikites 6y ago
  Government policies would be better than both of these options. The only reason that it "usually" works that way is because of the persistent effort of conservatives to paint government as ineffective at best and harmful at worst, when in reality democratic government is the best way we have to solve problems that require society-level intervention and coordination.
  - adrianN 6y ago
    I'm relatively sure that there is not a single country on the planet with a climate policy that is compatible with the 1.5° goal. Maybe some island nation or so? I think you're oversimplifying if you're just blaming the US flavor of conservatives.
    - minikites 6y ago
      I agree that no nation has regulations compatible with that goal, but I don't see how that means I'm oversimplifying. We have two common ways to organize and direct the actions of many people for a common goal: corporations and governments. Is there a third option for achieving these goals?
  - wombat-man 6y ago
    Well, unfortunately it doesn't seem like we're willing or able to make these decisions in the US. We as a country don't seem to be able to get everyone on the same page on these matters. There are just too many people who either don't believe the problem is serious or they do not care.
pjc50 6y ago
That's not unusual. What is unusual is that they're using their central market power to make things better, not worse, in terms of externalities.
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  This feels like a PR play though. Banks aren't the most competitive market in the country but the idea that 100% of banks will stop doing business with a multi-billion dollar industry has to be a conceit. Oil companies have a ton of money. "Start their own bank" money, if it came to that. There's no way this actually works against them. This kind of thing only works against marginalized people. So what it's meant to do is normalize the tactic. The banks are doing this against evil oil companies, and screw those guys amiright? Show everybody that our benevolent overlords are doing this for our own good. Then they come after others, actually marginalized groups without "start your own bank" money, and anybody who objects to that but not this is a hypocrite doing battle with existing precedent.
  - pjc50 6y ago
    > they come after others, actually marginalized groups without "start your own bank" money But .. this already happens, and has for some time, and nobody defending that makes reference to climate disinvestment?
    - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
      It happens in the sense that some individual bank might choose not to do business with some individual marginalized person, and maybe even multiple banks do that independently. Has it been the case that they come together like this in a publicly announced explicit conspiracy?
Analemma_ 6y ago
There was nothing democratic about the rise of the fossil fuel industry in the first place. Wanting "democracy" in the other direction is an asymmetrical demand with no justification.
thinkcontext 6y ago
Its investors communicating their allocation criteria to banks that they invest. It has nothing to do with democracy, its simple capitalism.
minikites 6y ago
This is the result of 40+ years of conservative propaganda harping on how "government is the problem" and "government is bloated and their involvement makes everything worse" so now corporations are the only ones left with power and trust to address large scale issues. I'd personally rather see society-scale issues handled by government instead of Facebook and Goldman Sachs, but it seems like most of my countrymen in the USA disagree.

Notice that there is nothing 'democratic' about this. It is large players in the economy who have unparalleled power in the market, unilaterally making a decision.

cies 6y ago

Sadly I noticed this too. I see this as a testimony to defunct democracies, that are heavily in the pockets of those making big money off pollution.

dfxm12 6y ago

It's not democracy, but it is capitalism. You know, the adage, "vote with you wallet". The bigger your wallet, the more say you have.

adrianN 6y ago

At least it's an improvement over the usual way it works where big players with unparalleled power in the market don't care about the future and unilaterally decide that we should pollute for another decade or two.

minikites 6y ago
Government policies would be better than both of these options. The only reason that it "usually" works that way is because of the persistent effort of conservatives to paint government as ineffective at best and harmful at worst, when in reality democratic government is the best way we have to solve problems that require society-level intervention and coordination.
- adrianN 6y ago
  I'm relatively sure that there is not a single country on the planet with a climate policy that is compatible with the 1.5° goal. Maybe some island nation or so? I think you're oversimplifying if you're just blaming the US flavor of conservatives.
  - minikites 6y ago
    I agree that no nation has regulations compatible with that goal, but I don't see how that means I'm oversimplifying. We have two common ways to organize and direct the actions of many people for a common goal: corporations and governments. Is there a third option for achieving these goals?
- wombat-man 6y ago
  Well, unfortunately it doesn't seem like we're willing or able to make these decisions in the US. We as a country don't seem to be able to get everyone on the same page on these matters. There are just too many people who either don't believe the problem is serious or they do not care.

pjc50 6y ago

That's not unusual. What is unusual is that they're using their central market power to make things better, not worse, in terms of externalities.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago
This feels like a PR play though. Banks aren't the most competitive market in the country but the idea that 100% of banks will stop doing business with a multi-billion dollar industry has to be a conceit. Oil companies have a ton of money. "Start their own bank" money, if it came to that. There's no way this actually works against them. This kind of thing only works against marginalized people. So what it's meant to do is normalize the tactic. The banks are doing this against evil oil companies, and screw those guys amiright? Show everybody that our benevolent overlords are doing this for our own good. Then they come after others, actually marginalized groups without "start your own bank" money, and anybody who objects to that but not this is a hypocrite doing battle with existing precedent.
- pjc50 6y ago
  > they come after others, actually marginalized groups without "start your own bank" money But .. this already happens, and has for some time, and nobody defending that makes reference to climate disinvestment?
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    It happens in the sense that some individual bank might choose not to do business with some individual marginalized person, and maybe even multiple banks do that independently. Has it been the case that they come together like this in a publicly announced explicit conspiracy?

Analemma_ 6y ago

There was nothing democratic about the rise of the fossil fuel industry in the first place. Wanting "democracy" in the other direction is an asymmetrical demand with no justification.

thinkcontext 6y ago

Its investors communicating their allocation criteria to banks that they invest. It has nothing to do with democracy, its simple capitalism.

minikites 6y ago

This is the result of 40+ years of conservative propaganda harping on how "government is the problem" and "government is bloated and their involvement makes everything worse" so now corporations are the only ones left with power and trust to address large scale issues. I'd personally rather see society-scale issues handled by government instead of Facebook and Goldman Sachs, but it seems like most of my countrymen in the USA disagree.