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It's statistically less rare than airline flight disasters, and yet those rightfully get plastered all over the news. https://policeviolencereport.org/ https:/

It's statistically less rare than airline flight disasters, and yet those rightfully get plastered all over the news. https://policeviolencereport.org/ https://policeviolencereport.org/ 1,127 people killed by police in the US in 2020. https://www.airfleets.net/crash/fatalities_year.htm https://www.airfleets.net/crash/fatalities_year.htm https://www.statista.com/statistics/263443/worldwide-air-traffic-fatalities/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/263443/worldwide-air-tra... Somewhere between 422 and 561 people killed in 2018, a year I specifically anti-cherry-picked as being particularly high within the last few years. At what point is cops killing people "statistically significant" for you? Because many people think that should be pretty close to zero. Especially when, as indicated in the first link I have below: * Only 16 cases, 1.42%, resulted in any kind of judicial action. * 601 of those cases were "police responding to suspected non-violent offenses or cases where no crime was reported." * "121 people were killed after police stopped them for a traffic violation."

lacker 6y ago
I think you’re picking the wrong stats here. The article says that 55 unarmed people were killed by police last year. If armed people are killed by police in a shootout, that isn’t the same sort of obvious tragedy that a plane crash is.
- wombatpm 6y ago
  Statistics around this are hard to verify. Chicago just had a 13 yr old killed. Police thought he was pointing a gun. Toy gun found on scene. But camera footage showed no gun and hands up when he was shot. Is that classified as an armed or unarmed shooting? Philando Castile had a gun is his car of which he informed the officer. Was that an armed or unarmed shooting?
- jdmichal 6y ago
  The source I provided has the following: * 80 unarmed. * 65 "armed" with a vehicle. * 180 armed with a knife or other sharp object. * 59 armed with "another object". * 670 armed with a gun. * 73 undetermined. So sure, let's just handwave that all those armed with a gun and also undetermined were justified self-defense, with whatever definition that carries. That still leaves 384 deaths. See my other response here regarding my thoughts around "justified" killings: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26865592 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26865592
CountDrewku 6y ago
It's only significant if those people were shot when it wasn't necessary. I think you'll find in the majority of these cases the shootings were more than justified and that includes many of the recent shootings/killings. If you want of fix the issue maybe try focusing on the actual problem which is the fact that these people end up in a life where they feel they need to be criminals to survive. Fix the socio-economic problems that cause this instead of what happens after they're already stuck in that lifestyle. You see this same sort of ridiculous logic in gun control as well. I'm sorry but the problem isn't as simple as taking away guns or blaming police. When people use this narrative I have question whether they actually even care about helping these people or if they want to just feel good and lie to themselves by picking out something they can easily blame. Focusing on police reform and gun control is such a white elitist argument. They can focus on a couple easy issues, pat themselves on the back and return to their lifestyles of luxury without even thinking about minorities afterwards. Additionally, here are the leading causes of death in the US: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm Notice that unjustified police shootings aren't even close in numbers? Would you like to have a discussion about diabetes and how we fix it? Probably not, because it's fat shaming to discuss that but the extremely rare police shooting "epidemic" is what we should be scared of, not the fact that there's an actual obesity epidemic.
- pksebben 6y ago
  I think it's important to define terms. what, in your estimation, qualifies as a "justified killing"? Self defence? does the aggressive party have to be capable of lethal force in that case? I would also like to point out that diabetes is something that an individual has some long-term control over, whereas it takes one cop with a hot trigger finger and some bad luck to get shot. The two are not remotely equivalent.
  - CountDrewku 6y ago
    Isn't it basically legally defined already? Brandishing a weapon at a police officer seems like a pretty good bar to me. "I would also like to point out that diabetes is something that an individual has some long-term control over, whereas it takes one cop with a hot trigger finger and some bad luck to get shot. The two are not remotely equivalent." Oh they are plenty equivalent. Staying away from criminal activity and obeying police orders are certainly something you can control individually. That will keep you from being shot by a police officer 99+ % of the time.

lacker 6y ago

I think you’re picking the wrong stats here. The article says that 55 unarmed people were killed by police last year. If armed people are killed by police in a shootout, that isn’t the same sort of obvious tragedy that a plane crash is.

wombatpm 6y ago
Statistics around this are hard to verify. Chicago just had a 13 yr old killed. Police thought he was pointing a gun. Toy gun found on scene. But camera footage showed no gun and hands up when he was shot. Is that classified as an armed or unarmed shooting? Philando Castile had a gun is his car of which he informed the officer. Was that an armed or unarmed shooting?
jdmichal 6y ago
The source I provided has the following: * 80 unarmed. * 65 "armed" with a vehicle. * 180 armed with a knife or other sharp object. * 59 armed with "another object". * 670 armed with a gun. * 73 undetermined. So sure, let's just handwave that all those armed with a gun and also undetermined were justified self-defense, with whatever definition that carries. That still leaves 384 deaths. See my other response here regarding my thoughts around "justified" killings: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26865592 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26865592

CountDrewku 6y ago

It's only significant if those people were shot when it wasn't necessary. I think you'll find in the majority of these cases the shootings were more than justified and that includes many of the recent shootings/killings. If you want of fix the issue maybe try focusing on the actual problem which is the fact that these people end up in a life where they feel they need to be criminals to survive. Fix the socio-economic problems that cause this instead of what happens after they're already stuck in that lifestyle. You see this same sort of ridiculous logic in gun control as well. I'm sorry but the problem isn't as simple as taking away guns or blaming police. When people use this narrative I have question whether they actually even care about helping these people or if they want to just feel good and lie to themselves by picking out something they can easily blame. Focusing on police reform and gun control is such a white elitist argument. They can focus on a couple easy issues, pat themselves on the back and return to their lifestyles of luxury without even thinking about minorities afterwards. Additionally, here are the leading causes of death in the US: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm Notice that unjustified police shootings aren't even close in numbers? Would you like to have a discussion about diabetes and how we fix it? Probably not, because it's fat shaming to discuss that but the extremely rare police shooting "epidemic" is what we should be scared of, not the fact that there's an actual obesity epidemic.

pksebben 6y ago
I think it's important to define terms. what, in your estimation, qualifies as a "justified killing"? Self defence? does the aggressive party have to be capable of lethal force in that case? I would also like to point out that diabetes is something that an individual has some long-term control over, whereas it takes one cop with a hot trigger finger and some bad luck to get shot. The two are not remotely equivalent.
- CountDrewku 6y ago
  Isn't it basically legally defined already? Brandishing a weapon at a police officer seems like a pretty good bar to me. "I would also like to point out that diabetes is something that an individual has some long-term control over, whereas it takes one cop with a hot trigger finger and some bad luck to get shot. The two are not remotely equivalent." Oh they are plenty equivalent. Staying away from criminal activity and obeying police orders are certainly something you can control individually. That will keep you from being shot by a police officer 99+ % of the time.