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I’ve seen you trot out your background as some sort of evidence of requiring Immigration restriction while seemingly ignoring the fact that your very existence

by pm90 6y ago

I’ve seen you trot out your background as some sort of evidence of requiring Immigration restriction while seemingly ignoring the fact that your very existence as a US citizen is a consequence of the “liberal” immigration policies that let your parents in. So let me put this in terms of your situation: 1) while 1st gen immigrants may hold different values, their kids turn out mostly to hold Americanized values and 2) the fact that they don’t fit in culturally is good, we want people with different perspectives.

rayiner 6y ago
> Immigration restriction while seemingly ignoring the fact that your very existence as a US citizen is a consequence of the “liberal” immigration policies that let your parents in. And? A basic criterion for higher level political thinking is being able to distinguish between what benefits you personally and what’s good policy in general. > 1) while 1st gen immigrants may hold different values, their kids turn out mostly to hold Americanized values and It’s not a one way process, especially at the high rates of immigration we’re seeing now. The share of the population that’s foreign born has tripled since 1970, to almost 15%. That degree of immigration changes American culture even as American culture changes the immigrants. > 2) the fact that they don’t fit in culturally is good, we want people with different perspectives. I don’t think that applies when you’re talking about a Democratic polity. In fact I think the opposite is true. A basic precept of international law is that different groups have the right to self-determination and cultivation of their own cultures under their own governments, when possible: https://unpo.org/article/4957 https://unpo.org/article/4957. Bangladesh, where I’m from, exists because Pakistanis and Bangladeshis didn’t want to be part of the same body politic. My wife’s family hunted wild game as their primary source of protein up to her grandparents’ generation. This is totally alien to my dad, who comes from a country where there has been no “frontier” for a thousand years. They don’t see eye-to-eye on say gun control, and they don’t even really have a cultural context in common that would allow them to meaningfully debate the issues. Now, maybe other factors outweigh these disadvantages. But as far as I can tell, that cultural disconnect is a political challenge to be overcome, not something that’s good in and of itself. I mean, it’s not like we don’t have enough problems in this country with people not seeing eye-to-eye as it is.

by pm90 6y ago

rayiner 6y ago

> Immigration restriction while seemingly ignoring the fact that your very existence as a US citizen is a consequence of the “liberal” immigration policies that let your parents in. And? A basic criterion for higher level political thinking is being able to distinguish between what benefits you personally and what’s good policy in general. > 1) while 1st gen immigrants may hold different values, their kids turn out mostly to hold Americanized values and It’s not a one way process, especially at the high rates of immigration we’re seeing now. The share of the population that’s foreign born has tripled since 1970, to almost 15%. That degree of immigration changes American culture even as American culture changes the immigrants. > 2) the fact that they don’t fit in culturally is good, we want people with different perspectives. I don’t think that applies when you’re talking about a Democratic polity. In fact I think the opposite is true. A basic precept of international law is that different groups have the right to self-determination and cultivation of their own cultures under their own governments, when possible: https://unpo.org/article/4957 https://unpo.org/article/4957. Bangladesh, where I’m from, exists because Pakistanis and Bangladeshis didn’t want to be part of the same body politic. My wife’s family hunted wild game as their primary source of protein up to her grandparents’ generation. This is totally alien to my dad, who comes from a country where there has been no “frontier” for a thousand years. They don’t see eye-to-eye on say gun control, and they don’t even really have a cultural context in common that would allow them to meaningfully debate the issues. Now, maybe other factors outweigh these disadvantages. But as far as I can tell, that cultural disconnect is a political challenge to be overcome, not something that’s good in and of itself. I mean, it’s not like we don’t have enough problems in this country with people not seeing eye-to-eye as it is.