4 ms·
The US and the UK have the most open policies and are overwhelmingly the most welcoming to migrants. Both in practice and in culture. The hints of Trumpism an
by jariel 5y ago
The US and the UK have the most open policies and are overwhelmingly the most welcoming to migrants.
Both in practice and in culture.
The hints of Trumpism and Brexit 'nationalism' are essentially bigotry on the part of the author.
The paradox is if you have quite a lot of newcomers, that's going to make some people upset, or at least the policy will get attention. If you have few newcomers, it means there's little discussion but that doesn't mean the place is welcoming.
And some of it is just a matter of regular cultural barriers: Germany is a tough nut to crack even linguistically, let alone the culture. In America, it's 'English' and beyond that, there's little to worry about.
While Brexit has certainly caused some degree of unknowns because a former policy with the EU has changed, I think it will be sorted out.
Since there has been some policy change, the premise of the article I think is fair, but the wording was a little bit snide.
The data concerning attitudes towards immigrants consistently denies the narrative in the press regarding US/UK migrant populism. Have a look [1].
Survey after survey from generally the most respected institutions tend to reveal the same thing and that is the Anglosphere is considerably more open than other places. I don't consider that any kind of moral basis, however, it is a reality.
[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/03/14/around-the-world-more-say-immigrants-are-a-strength-than-a-burden/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/03/14/around-the-wor...
Edit: I should add that the US/UK are not only the #1 destination for migrants, they also accept considerably more migrants per capita than most places, though not as much as Canada/Australia, notably, Anglosphere countries.
The evidence is overwhelming and undeniable that those places are generally good for migrants, almost all of the data supports it (number accepted, destination, openness, views of migrants etc). As noted below - the US system is rather bureaucratic, but it in the end it does extend status to mangy millions of people a year, a higher number (and per capita than most places so it's not that bad).
If you want to contend this, this you'll have to provide evidence other than the rather indirect notion of 'Trump said something mean'.
- pjc50 5y ago> The US and the UK have the most open policies and are overwhelmingly the most welcoming to migrants. [citation needed], along with a definition of "welcoming".
- rayiner 5y agoHere you go: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/25/americans-most-inclusive-attitude-to-immigrants-global-study-finds https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/25/americans-mo...
- alistairSH 5y agoNeighbors welcoming immigrants isn't remotely the same thing as immigration policy. Our (US) immigration policy and process is an expensive, painful, broken mess. That fellow residents welcome you after all the legal expense, time-wasted, and plain old stress, if besides the point.
- jariel 5y agoYes, the US has a byzantine migration bureaucracy, as do other nations, but that's a separate issue from notions of 'welcoming' or 'integration' or 'opportunities' etc.. It's also weird how the US has all the best talent in the world and some of the more ill-equipped bureaucracies.
- alistairSH 5y agoSure, but the parent post asserted "The US and the UK have the most open policies" which isn't true. And the article was about policy, not neighborhood acceptance. The US has some of the best talent because of the economy, which is arguably a result of WWII (Germany, UK, Japan, etc all had to rebuild, we did not). And, in my possibly jaded opinion, the bureaucracy is a feature not a bug. Politicians don't really want to fix anything because that would remove one of the drums they beat come election time.
- jariel 5y agoThere's a citation there, and I think people are smart enough to understand what the term 'welcoming' might mean. The data is very consistent - whatever words you want to use, the US and UK come out pretty well in terms of their respect and openness to migrants. [1][2] The issues I have mostly is with the false narrative created in the press, particularly around Brexit although using Trump's words as evidence is not entirely unfair, it's still a little misrepresented. [1] https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/uk-public-opinion-toward-immigration-overall-attitudes-and-level-of-concern/ https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/uk... [2] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/19/british-attitudes-on-national-identity-and-religious-minorities-not-unique-in-eu/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/19/british-att...
- raverbashing 5y ago> The US and the UK have the most open policies and are overwhelmingly the most welcoming to migrants. Yes you can see how open those policies are when you apply for a visa or are interrogated at any point of entry of these countries.
- jariel 5y agoI have been an immigrant / temporary resident in both countries. Ad-hominem is not helping.
- raverbashing 5y agoGood so you should know how long does it take to obtain a H1-B visa (or any work visa in the US, maybe with the exception of the TN ones). Or the issues surrounding the Home Office in the UK (which I do give you is more welcoming than the US) Hyperboles don't help neither
- skocznymroczny 5y agoIndividual experiences may vary. As a tourist, my two points of entry in US were a smooth experience, just a question of "how long are you staying" "what do you plan to do here". But my entry to Canada was a barrage of questions, "how long are you staying", "why are you traveling alone", "do you have any family here", "do you have a flight ticket home", "are you going to other provinces", etc.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- derriz 5y agoIf the US and UK have the most open policies, it certainly doesn't show up in the statistics. Both have fewer foreign-born residents than is average for their region (North America and Western Europe respectively)[1]. And I don't think it's bigotry to point out that a central notion of Brexit and Trumpist nationalism is the belief that their respective countries have accepted far more immigrants than other countries. I'm more familiar with Brexitism - where xenophobic images and messages concerning immigrants were used liberally during the campaign.[2] Of course, it's possible that the US and UK have the most open immigration policies but then, to explain why they have proportionally fewer immigrants than their neighbours, this would require that they are less welcoming or desirable. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d... [2] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-s-anti-immigrant-poster-reported-police-over-claims-it-incites-racial-hatred-a7087801.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-...
- blibble 5y agothe difference in your list is minimal: the UK and US are within 2% of the first large/medium sized country on the list (Germany)
- derriz 5y agoThe claim was that "the US and the UK have the most open immigration policies". If you have any statistics to support this claim, please provide a reference. The statistics I referred to (proportion of foreign born residents) seem to clearly indicate that this claim is untrue. And "within 2%" is a disingenuous response: why not say "below"? And why compare the percentages by absolute difference? A 2% difference when we're talking about proportions around the 15% level is significant.
- blibble 5y agoit's not my claim, so I have no need to defend anything in terms of the G7, from your list we have: Canada (21.3%) Germany (15.7%) US (15.4%) UK (14.1%) France (12.8%) Italy (10.4%) Japan (2%) Canada and Japan are the outliers, not the US or the UK