4 ms·

No "guys" is not inclusive in many situations. Guys is males first, female second.

by jerven 5y ago

damagednoob 5y ago
How did you come to this conclusion? I have never seen a definition that implied a precedence.
- Pfhreak 5y ago
  There are plenty of examples, from titles of things (eg. " Guys and Dolls"), to expressions that are clearly understood to be gendered. (Eg, "I only date guys." Or "if the guys will please leave the room for a moment.") Yes, there are are colloquial uses where it is gender neutral, but those are not universal internationally.
  - damagednoob 5y ago
    I'm not asking about whether guys can refer to both men and women. I'm asking explicitly about precedence. Is gentleman similarly problematic because of the phrase, 'ladies and gentleman'? This seems like a completely made up problem.
    - Pfhreak 5y ago
      The phrase ladies and gentlemen does have it's own problems, mostly because it fails to address non binary people. > This seems like a completely made up problem. Only because it doesn't impact you. Consider developing more empathy. Surely you know some folks who gave challenges in their lives that others callously dismiss as not a big deal.
      - damagednoob 5y ago
        If you're basing your argument of the gender precedence of 'guys' on 'Guys and Dolls', I think I'm comfortable in my opinion that this is a made up problem. > Surely you know some folks who gave challenges in their lives that others callously dismiss as not a big deal. Sure do. And they recognised that those problems were their own that they needed to overcome. Not insist that everyone else change to accommodate them.
- jerven 5y ago
  Ask a man how many guys he has dated. What is the more common connotation? Which is why it is about men first and women second in likelihood. Not about precedence of importance but precedence of likelihood about the genders of the people spoken about. So for some people guys has a touch of the ladies not being explicitly asked for feedback to questions like "hi guys, where should we go today". Now this is not universal but language rarely is and context matters a whole lot.
  - damagednoob 5y ago
    > context matters a whole lot Well yes, which undermines your example. When I see women use the term 'hey guys', they are normally addressing a mixed group, with no precedence implied or inferred. In a 1-on-1 conversation, I would find it weird asking someone their dating history if I didn't know what their sexual orientation was. Different context, different connotations.

No "guys" is not inclusive in many situations. Guys is males first, female second.

by jerven 5y ago

No "guys" is not inclusive in many situations. Guys is males first, female second.

damagednoob 5y ago

How did you come to this conclusion? I have never seen a definition that implied a precedence.

Pfhreak 5y ago
There are plenty of examples, from titles of things (eg. " Guys and Dolls"), to expressions that are clearly understood to be gendered. (Eg, "I only date guys." Or "if the guys will please leave the room for a moment.") Yes, there are are colloquial uses where it is gender neutral, but those are not universal internationally.
- damagednoob 5y ago
  I'm not asking about whether guys can refer to both men and women. I'm asking explicitly about precedence. Is gentleman similarly problematic because of the phrase, 'ladies and gentleman'? This seems like a completely made up problem.
  - Pfhreak 5y ago
    The phrase ladies and gentlemen does have it's own problems, mostly because it fails to address non binary people. > This seems like a completely made up problem. Only because it doesn't impact you. Consider developing more empathy. Surely you know some folks who gave challenges in their lives that others callously dismiss as not a big deal.
    - damagednoob 5y ago
      If you're basing your argument of the gender precedence of 'guys' on 'Guys and Dolls', I think I'm comfortable in my opinion that this is a made up problem. > Surely you know some folks who gave challenges in their lives that others callously dismiss as not a big deal. Sure do. And they recognised that those problems were their own that they needed to overcome. Not insist that everyone else change to accommodate them.
jerven 5y ago
Ask a man how many guys he has dated. What is the more common connotation? Which is why it is about men first and women second in likelihood. Not about precedence of importance but precedence of likelihood about the genders of the people spoken about. So for some people guys has a touch of the ladies not being explicitly asked for feedback to questions like "hi guys, where should we go today". Now this is not universal but language rarely is and context matters a whole lot.
- damagednoob 5y ago
  > context matters a whole lot Well yes, which undermines your example. When I see women use the term 'hey guys', they are normally addressing a mixed group, with no precedence implied or inferred. In a 1-on-1 conversation, I would find it weird asking someone their dating history if I didn't know what their sexual orientation was. Different context, different connotations.