3 ms·

So, here we have a philosophical issue: tribe or meritocracy. Considering the historically horrible results with tribalism, meritocracy is best. Which means, o

So, here we have a philosophical issue: tribe or meritocracy. Considering the historically horrible results with tribalism, meritocracy is best. Which means, open the borders. If some lazy spoiled Americans lose their jobs to better skilled immigrants, all the better. That's what this country is about.

lupatus 15y ago
The USA has an orderly and, from what I understand from my immigrant friends and coworkers, not too difficult immigration process already. The meritocracy is here already. The article's author decided to cheat the system and be a criminal.
- pmb 15y ago
  "Not too difficult". Hah. http://immigrationroad.com/green-card/immigration-flowchart-roadmap-to-green-card.php http://immigrationroad.com/green-card/immigration-flowchart-... The shortest route is 10 years.
  - pfedor 15y ago
    It's not true. I got an employment-based green card a little over a year after I set foot in the country. What is true is that the system is rigged against Indians and Chinese. If you are Indian and don't have a PhD, then yes, you may have to wait 10 years, probably longer in fact. Unlike the hardships of illegal immigrants, this hardly ever gets any attention though.
- icarus_drowning 15y ago
  I'm an American who has contacts with a group of people who are illegal aliens. We have been trying to go the correct route for years. Trust me when I say it is a clusterfuck of epic proportions. The entire reason we have a problem is because there isn't a good way to "do things legally".
- chaostheory 15y ago
  I had to wait over 8 years to get my citizenship and wade through tons of bureaucracy and paperwork. In my experience it was anything but easy. It took a letter to the governor of my state, asking for help so that I can vote for him; to get things moving. Suddenly everything magically fell into place within two weeks of writing that letter. It's probably only 'easy' for Canadians.
  - rplacd 15y ago
    In all seriousness, though, would you recommend anyone else do that after being able to prove you've "done your time" in the system?
    - chaostheory 15y ago
      Recommend writing a letter to your governor or local politician? Yes. Dismantle the bureaucracy that makes immigration so difficult? Yes. I believe in free markets.
rubashov 15y ago
> horrible results with tribalism, meritocracy is best. May I attempt to translate?: Throw my weaker countrymen under the bus. I have no human loyalties to those born in my nation who share my culture. Their welfare is of no consequence compared to potentially profitable foreigners. I think your "tribalism vs meritocracy" line does get to the heart of the matter. Except I would substitute the term "nationalism" for tribalism. And the story of the 19th and 20th century is the absolute failure of systems of government not oriented around nationalism, and tribe. All over the world empires and larger nations repeatedly broke up into their tribal elements. This is inevitable human nature and fighting it is just stupid. This project of inviting the entire world into the borders of the USA will end in civil war eventually. Enoch Powell was right. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Rivers-of-Blood-speech.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Riv...
- jarek 15y ago
  It might also be worthwhile to mention that the 20th century has seen a nice collection of wars and atrocities done by nation states upon other nations.

lupatus 15y ago

The USA has an orderly and, from what I understand from my immigrant friends and coworkers, not too difficult immigration process already. The meritocracy is here already. The article's author decided to cheat the system and be a criminal.

pmb 15y ago
"Not too difficult". Hah. http://immigrationroad.com/green-card/immigration-flowchart-roadmap-to-green-card.php http://immigrationroad.com/green-card/immigration-flowchart-... The shortest route is 10 years.
- pfedor 15y ago
  It's not true. I got an employment-based green card a little over a year after I set foot in the country. What is true is that the system is rigged against Indians and Chinese. If you are Indian and don't have a PhD, then yes, you may have to wait 10 years, probably longer in fact. Unlike the hardships of illegal immigrants, this hardly ever gets any attention though.
icarus_drowning 15y ago
I'm an American who has contacts with a group of people who are illegal aliens. We have been trying to go the correct route for years. Trust me when I say it is a clusterfuck of epic proportions. The entire reason we have a problem is because there isn't a good way to "do things legally".
chaostheory 15y ago
I had to wait over 8 years to get my citizenship and wade through tons of bureaucracy and paperwork. In my experience it was anything but easy. It took a letter to the governor of my state, asking for help so that I can vote for him; to get things moving. Suddenly everything magically fell into place within two weeks of writing that letter. It's probably only 'easy' for Canadians.
- rplacd 15y ago
  In all seriousness, though, would you recommend anyone else do that after being able to prove you've "done your time" in the system?
  - chaostheory 15y ago
    Recommend writing a letter to your governor or local politician? Yes. Dismantle the bureaucracy that makes immigration so difficult? Yes. I believe in free markets.

rubashov 15y ago

> horrible results with tribalism, meritocracy is best. May I attempt to translate?: Throw my weaker countrymen under the bus. I have no human loyalties to those born in my nation who share my culture. Their welfare is of no consequence compared to potentially profitable foreigners. I think your "tribalism vs meritocracy" line does get to the heart of the matter. Except I would substitute the term "nationalism" for tribalism. And the story of the 19th and 20th century is the absolute failure of systems of government not oriented around nationalism, and tribe. All over the world empires and larger nations repeatedly broke up into their tribal elements. This is inevitable human nature and fighting it is just stupid. This project of inviting the entire world into the borders of the USA will end in civil war eventually. Enoch Powell was right. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Rivers-of-Blood-speech.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Riv...

jarek 15y ago
It might also be worthwhile to mention that the 20th century has seen a nice collection of wars and atrocities done by nation states upon other nations.