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Overall I believe the industry of sewing clothes is gonna be the last to be fully automated. The 3D manipulation of 2D fabric is just too finicky and screams fo

Overall I believe the industry of sewing clothes is gonna be the last to be fully automated. The 3D manipulation of 2D fabric is just too finicky and screams for the human touch, experienced, versatile fingers. But starting off 2D, mass produced fabric is just so much more efficient and versatile. Sadly, this is bad news for the future of human freedom, as it will mean the associated exploitation and environmental impact isn't gonna end soon either. However, I have this hypothesis this problem can be solved with software otherwise, by removing the complexity and hurdle of custom pattern creation and distribution to the typical end consumer. You can't make your own fridge, smartphone, and even wood working is out of reach for most people in the city (space, logistics). However, everyone physically capable could in principle sew their own clothes, if it's just down to the sewing part. Traditional pattern creation and/or application is the hard part. Space needed, investment in the sewing machine and fabric, time expenditure... It's all relatively feasible to most. I think having a FOSS variant of Clo3d, UI optimized to match different experience levels and a github like collaboration network would offer the potential to kill a good chunk of fast fashion, complex supply chains, and consequently ecological and humanitarian exploitation. Imagine using a camera or lidar scanner to measure your body, load that to the software, have the design specification applied to your personal body model, the pattern projected onto the fabric for cutting, or even laser cut, until all is left is sewing the pieces together according to the community improved instructions. No more compromises in fitting. Things will last and be cared for, because you made them yourself. Fewer better clothing. Or delegate this to your local sewing service, which operates under the same opportunity of reduced overhead. Things just need to be FOSS to have this change the world. Clo3d costs 500€/month minimum... But really it's just blender with extra steps. It can be done.

RicoElectrico 5y ago
> The 3D manipulation of 2D fabric is just too finicky and screams for the human touch, experienced, versatile fingers. Maybe asking robots to do the human thing is not the right approach. Just like dishwashers don't do things resembling how humans approach the task. Which implies the clothing would have to change somehow. Is that even possible? I don't know.
- lofi_lory 5y ago
  You got 3D woven clothing already in stores. But I think there is a fundamental limit in form and function. Clothing isn't just means to keep you warm and protected. Aesthetics matter. I think the loom is already the dishwasher here, where sewing is collecting used, unordered dishes. I think these tasks need a deeper understanding of what's there to handle. Prediction how things will behave and adapt intelligently if they don't. E.g. spontaneously using your pinky to stretch away the fabric getting in the way. You need to understand the meaning of the seam to manifest it, even out tension, redo some part, ... Non petrol based fabric has imperfections and variances. I think you need general purpose, human-level AI to sew a good jeans.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
baybal2 5y ago
> The 3D manipulation of 2D fabric is just too finicky and screams for the human touch, experienced, versatile fingers. But starting off 2D, mass produced fabric is just so much more efficient and versatile. 3D robot woven fibre composites were a thing for more than a decade.
- lofi_lory 5y ago
  Yes and severely limited in aesthetical expression.
  - CyberDildonics 5y ago
    Before you said it wasn't possible. Now when someone points out it has been already done for a long time you say "severely limited aethetical (not a word) expression".
    - lofi_lory 5y ago
      Where did I say it's not possible? This very article is about 3D printing of clothes. So someone pointed out 3D woven clothes exists, probably didn't really read my comment either. I too had 3D woven clothing in mind in my original first paragraph, when I emphasized the aesthetic benefits of 2D fabrics, over direct 3D fabrication. What's your point, really? Is what I said invalidated, because you assumed some inconsistency off topic? Do you think that's constructive and helpful to discourse and exploring new ideas?
      - CyberDildonics 5y ago
        > The 3D manipulation of 2D fabric is just too finicky Then you went on some tangent about "the future of human freedom".
        lofi_lory 5y ago
        Yes. That's not 3D woven, is it? Robots aren't sewing jeans, but they can weave some variation of tube like socks or a simple pullover. Anyway, I think you are just trying to fight and feel superior over some pity. Hope you get better. Good night.
wrnr 5y ago
Thats 50/month, but ok it's not for everyone. Designing cloth is not something everyone can do and it takes practice and some are more talented at it so it makes sense to pay these people for their work. More customisation is also harder to scale, if everyone start making their own color combination the knitting or weaving machines need to be re-threaded, which takes time. Printing on fabric requires not just a printer but also an autoclave to cure the paint. I'm actually in the middle of making a clothing CAD, and I would love to be able to make my own stuff but scaling so it's not 500€ for a tshirt.
- lofi_lory 5y ago
  You are correct about the pricing it seems. Either they changed that, or I misremembered. Anyway, 50€/m is still way too much for hobbyists. I think you missed the point. It's exactly the answer to "not everyone can design clothing". You download the design specs, the software does the calculation and application, and then you cut the fabric. No designing, no following and fitting lines on large paper patterns... All this can be done in software.
  - wrnr 5y ago
    How is the output of the software transferred to the fabric?
    - lofi_lory 5y ago
      Either "poster print" on multiple A4 papers, overhead projection onto the fabric, or laser cut. That's what I had in mind. I imagine an optional small helper device with lidar scanner and mini projector to measure the body and help with the pattern transfer. Both lidar and mini projector modules are becoming really cheap, as you find them in cheap chinese phones already.
- lofi_lory 5y ago
  I didn't mean to imply to tackle the fabric industry with this. Just the sewing. I think fabric is still better off mass produced by long running machines and then you design around what's on the market. Much like you would do with wood. This is all compromises, but I think fundamentally sewing is the most approachable craft to not offload to a specialized industry. It's the pattern issue and convenience at heart, I think. As I said, much harder to make your own fridge or couch, than a t-shirt or dress.

RicoElectrico 5y ago

> The 3D manipulation of 2D fabric is just too finicky and screams for the human touch, experienced, versatile fingers. Maybe asking robots to do the human thing is not the right approach. Just like dishwashers don't do things resembling how humans approach the task. Which implies the clothing would have to change somehow. Is that even possible? I don't know.

lofi_lory 5y ago
You got 3D woven clothing already in stores. But I think there is a fundamental limit in form and function. Clothing isn't just means to keep you warm and protected. Aesthetics matter. I think the loom is already the dishwasher here, where sewing is collecting used, unordered dishes. I think these tasks need a deeper understanding of what's there to handle. Prediction how things will behave and adapt intelligently if they don't. E.g. spontaneously using your pinky to stretch away the fabric getting in the way. You need to understand the meaning of the seam to manifest it, even out tension, redo some part, ... Non petrol based fabric has imperfections and variances. I think you need general purpose, human-level AI to sew a good jeans.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

baybal2 5y ago

> The 3D manipulation of 2D fabric is just too finicky and screams for the human touch, experienced, versatile fingers. But starting off 2D, mass produced fabric is just so much more efficient and versatile. 3D robot woven fibre composites were a thing for more than a decade.

lofi_lory 5y ago
Yes and severely limited in aesthetical expression.
- CyberDildonics 5y ago
  Before you said it wasn't possible. Now when someone points out it has been already done for a long time you say "severely limited aethetical (not a word) expression".
  - lofi_lory 5y ago
    Where did I say it's not possible? This very article is about 3D printing of clothes. So someone pointed out 3D woven clothes exists, probably didn't really read my comment either. I too had 3D woven clothing in mind in my original first paragraph, when I emphasized the aesthetic benefits of 2D fabrics, over direct 3D fabrication. What's your point, really? Is what I said invalidated, because you assumed some inconsistency off topic? Do you think that's constructive and helpful to discourse and exploring new ideas?
    - CyberDildonics 5y ago
      > The 3D manipulation of 2D fabric is just too finicky Then you went on some tangent about "the future of human freedom".
      - lofi_lory 5y ago
        Yes. That's not 3D woven, is it? Robots aren't sewing jeans, but they can weave some variation of tube like socks or a simple pullover. Anyway, I think you are just trying to fight and feel superior over some pity. Hope you get better. Good night.

wrnr 5y ago

Thats 50/month, but ok it's not for everyone. Designing cloth is not something everyone can do and it takes practice and some are more talented at it so it makes sense to pay these people for their work. More customisation is also harder to scale, if everyone start making their own color combination the knitting or weaving machines need to be re-threaded, which takes time. Printing on fabric requires not just a printer but also an autoclave to cure the paint. I'm actually in the middle of making a clothing CAD, and I would love to be able to make my own stuff but scaling so it's not 500€ for a tshirt.

lofi_lory 5y ago
You are correct about the pricing it seems. Either they changed that, or I misremembered. Anyway, 50€/m is still way too much for hobbyists. I think you missed the point. It's exactly the answer to "not everyone can design clothing". You download the design specs, the software does the calculation and application, and then you cut the fabric. No designing, no following and fitting lines on large paper patterns... All this can be done in software.
- wrnr 5y ago
  How is the output of the software transferred to the fabric?
  - lofi_lory 5y ago
    Either "poster print" on multiple A4 papers, overhead projection onto the fabric, or laser cut. That's what I had in mind. I imagine an optional small helper device with lidar scanner and mini projector to measure the body and help with the pattern transfer. Both lidar and mini projector modules are becoming really cheap, as you find them in cheap chinese phones already.
lofi_lory 5y ago
I didn't mean to imply to tackle the fabric industry with this. Just the sewing. I think fabric is still better off mass produced by long running machines and then you design around what's on the market. Much like you would do with wood. This is all compromises, but I think fundamentally sewing is the most approachable craft to not offload to a specialized industry. It's the pattern issue and convenience at heart, I think. As I said, much harder to make your own fridge or couch, than a t-shirt or dress.