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The post notes that adults "fucking hated" the ladder E. Does anyone else find it creepy, or just me? I can't explain exactly why. As the alphabet develops in

The post notes that adults "fucking hated" the ladder E. Does anyone else find it creepy, or just me? I can't explain exactly why. As the alphabet develops in the replies, it loses some of the creepiness and gains something else. Not friendliness exactly, but.... not sure. Something. I think the first ladder E is creepy partly because it's unexpected, and is placed among normal letters. It's a cuckoo, an interloper, alien. Others have pointed out similarities with some machine learning outputs. I was reminded of the spooky, spidery lettering from fashion GANs, e.g. check out what happens to the text "bisou" and "100% love machine" in [0] taken from [1]. [0] https://images.deepai.org/converted-papers/2007.10947/figures/f_attgan_fashion_title.jpg https://images.deepai.org/converted-papers/2007.10947/figure... [1] https://deepai.org/publication/garment-design-with-generative-adversarial-networks https://deepai.org/publication/garment-design-with-generativ...

warent 6y ago
I think it has something to do with uncanny valley. Just like how distorted human faces look unsettling, this is the same mechanism. The letters are deeply rooted in our interpretation of the world, so when those symbols are distorted, it is a distortion of the whole world itself. I bet it's mostly only native users of the alphabet who are affected like this. Someone who uses it as a second language, e.g. a japanese person, probably doesn't get the same feeling
- augustk 6y ago
  I get the same feeling when I look at some recently built "distorted" buildings with irregular windows. Here is an example: https://www.archdaily.com/782889/flower-plus-kindergarten-oa-lab/56d3abe4e58ece504c0000ed-flower-plus-kindergarten-oa-lab-photo https://www.archdaily.com/782889/flower-plus-kindergarten-oa... Maybe it's linked to trypophobia.
  - beaconstudios 6y ago
    we like things to be regular, so we don't like things that almost fit regular conventions but break them in some obvious way.
  - vimax 6y ago
    Ugh, I hope someone went to jail for making that.
    - augustk 6y ago
      These kind of buildings are unfortunately a trend currently.
    - augustk 6y ago
      If a prison was built next to a building like that it could be a part of the punishment to see this building from the prison cell.
  - warent 6y ago
    Ha! Those are bizarre. It doesn't make me feel uneasy in the same way, it just looks like something a kid would put together in the Sims.
- tgv 6y ago
  Agree. I think the horizontal strokes looks like teeth, in particular, teeth you see in horror.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
myfonj 6y ago
»Cancer« was my instant association seeing ladder E. IDK if it caused prior knowledge that there will be something "unsettling" I got from HN title ("Unsettling capital letters"; impossible to rule out now). I'm pretty sure it induced similarly disturbing feelings I got when I saw photos of bones affected by cancer for the first time. (Do not search for them, or be warned; I normally have no problems with such imagery, but this particular views haunts me to this days and I'd better like to have never seen them.)
- ASalazarMX 6y ago
  > this particular views haunts me to this days and I'd better like to have never seen them According to sleep research, you have to dream of those to lessen the emotional load associated with them, so go and have a couple of bone cancer nightmares.
korv 6y ago
Oh, yes. I've always felt a bit uneasy when I see the logo [0] for "Defqon.1 Primal Energy" https://cdn.q-dance.com/l6hfsc63q612/6q72WINFR6Elorje1a49Nt/841b3f5d8071f685921cb8e33b9bab7b/1920_x_1080-4.png https://cdn.q-dance.com/l6hfsc63q612/6q72WINFR6Elorje1a49Nt/...
- GuB-42 6y ago
  Speaking of festivals, the Boom Festival logo has it too. https://boomfestival.org/ https://boomfestival.org/ But others letters are made the same way, a bit like the font in the article. So, less creepy, I guess.
  - ASalazarMX 6y ago
    Oh, now I know why I hate that ladder E: your sight tells you it's an E, but it has a bit more up, so it analyses it, and it's still an E, and the process repeats until your sight tells you that can't possibly be an E anymore. It has the same vibe than this novelty facemask, if you wore several of them: http://www.naijanetwork.com/uploads/imageupload/997/FLM4TP8P4D14.png http://www.naijanetwork.com/uploads/imageupload/997/FLM4TP8P...
- sangnoir 6y ago
  Yeh, for me, it's the eye strain from my eyes trying to "focus" on an image that's already focussed (and impossible to resolve the way my brain thinks it should be). This is similar to the Buscemi-with-four-eyes picture[1] - it tricks your eyes into continually changing focal distance in an attempt bring the picture into focus. It is physically straining your eye muscles. 1. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/85/21/c9/8521c9f0eefb09245edf864f6ed19c5b.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/85/21/c9/8521c9f0eefb09245edf...
alanbernstein 6y ago
I wouldn't say I find it creepy, but it definitely reminds me of the "double face" thing (e.g. https://thedailyomnivore.net/2012/03/05/double-face-illusion/ https://thedailyomnivore.net/2012/03/05/double-face-illusion...), which just makes me feel like my eyes aren't working correctly.
dhosek 6y ago
My son has an e in his name. He often added extra crossbars when signing in to class last year when he was in kindergarten. I don't know if he still does it in first grade since parents don't enter the school building with Coronavirus. In any event, I always found the E charming. Frank Lloyd Wright's lettering (apropos since we live a couple miles from his home/studio in Oak Park), incidentally often doubled or tripled the crossbars on A and H (but not, I would note, E). Being in FLW territory, we see a lot of the Eaglefeather typeface based on his lettering [0] but I doubt that my son was inspired by that (but then again, since he was three, he has declared his intention to become and architect). [0] https://fonts.adobe.com/fonts/p22-eaglefeather https://fonts.adobe.com/fonts/p22-eaglefeather
hateful 6y ago
Maybe it has to do with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trypophobia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trypophobia
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  This was my thought as well. I experience pretty pronounced trypophobia and didn’t find this unsettling, but people experience it in many different ways.
Igelau 6y ago
My guess is that the creepiness comes from the fractal-like nature of these letters -- taking the thing that makes the letter unique and overiterating it. Since nature constructs itself in fractal geometry, the letters are stuck in a half-baked transition from symbolic to organic, and our expectations are left bouncing between the two. If you could put the word "caterpillar" in a cocoon and hatch a real butterfly from it, these letters are what it would look like if someone cut the cocoon open too early.

warent 6y ago

I think it has something to do with uncanny valley. Just like how distorted human faces look unsettling, this is the same mechanism. The letters are deeply rooted in our interpretation of the world, so when those symbols are distorted, it is a distortion of the whole world itself. I bet it's mostly only native users of the alphabet who are affected like this. Someone who uses it as a second language, e.g. a japanese person, probably doesn't get the same feeling

augustk 6y ago
I get the same feeling when I look at some recently built "distorted" buildings with irregular windows. Here is an example: https://www.archdaily.com/782889/flower-plus-kindergarten-oa-lab/56d3abe4e58ece504c0000ed-flower-plus-kindergarten-oa-lab-photo https://www.archdaily.com/782889/flower-plus-kindergarten-oa... Maybe it's linked to trypophobia.
- beaconstudios 6y ago
  we like things to be regular, so we don't like things that almost fit regular conventions but break them in some obvious way.
- vimax 6y ago
  Ugh, I hope someone went to jail for making that.
  - augustk 6y ago
    These kind of buildings are unfortunately a trend currently.
  - augustk 6y ago
    If a prison was built next to a building like that it could be a part of the punishment to see this building from the prison cell.
- warent 6y ago
  Ha! Those are bizarre. It doesn't make me feel uneasy in the same way, it just looks like something a kid would put together in the Sims.
tgv 6y ago
Agree. I think the horizontal strokes looks like teeth, in particular, teeth you see in horror.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

myfonj 6y ago

»Cancer« was my instant association seeing ladder E. IDK if it caused prior knowledge that there will be something "unsettling" I got from HN title ("Unsettling capital letters"; impossible to rule out now). I'm pretty sure it induced similarly disturbing feelings I got when I saw photos of bones affected by cancer for the first time. (Do not search for them, or be warned; I normally have no problems with such imagery, but this particular views haunts me to this days and I'd better like to have never seen them.)

ASalazarMX 6y ago
> this particular views haunts me to this days and I'd better like to have never seen them According to sleep research, you have to dream of those to lessen the emotional load associated with them, so go and have a couple of bone cancer nightmares.

korv 6y ago

Oh, yes. I've always felt a bit uneasy when I see the logo [0] for "Defqon.1 Primal Energy" https://cdn.q-dance.com/l6hfsc63q612/6q72WINFR6Elorje1a49Nt/841b3f5d8071f685921cb8e33b9bab7b/1920_x_1080-4.png https://cdn.q-dance.com/l6hfsc63q612/6q72WINFR6Elorje1a49Nt/...

GuB-42 6y ago
Speaking of festivals, the Boom Festival logo has it too. https://boomfestival.org/ https://boomfestival.org/ But others letters are made the same way, a bit like the font in the article. So, less creepy, I guess.
- ASalazarMX 6y ago
  Oh, now I know why I hate that ladder E: your sight tells you it's an E, but it has a bit more up, so it analyses it, and it's still an E, and the process repeats until your sight tells you that can't possibly be an E anymore. It has the same vibe than this novelty facemask, if you wore several of them: http://www.naijanetwork.com/uploads/imageupload/997/FLM4TP8P4D14.png http://www.naijanetwork.com/uploads/imageupload/997/FLM4TP8P...
sangnoir 6y ago
Yeh, for me, it's the eye strain from my eyes trying to "focus" on an image that's already focussed (and impossible to resolve the way my brain thinks it should be). This is similar to the Buscemi-with-four-eyes picture[1] - it tricks your eyes into continually changing focal distance in an attempt bring the picture into focus. It is physically straining your eye muscles. 1. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/85/21/c9/8521c9f0eefb09245edf864f6ed19c5b.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/85/21/c9/8521c9f0eefb09245edf...

alanbernstein 6y ago

I wouldn't say I find it creepy, but it definitely reminds me of the "double face" thing (e.g. https://thedailyomnivore.net/2012/03/05/double-face-illusion/ https://thedailyomnivore.net/2012/03/05/double-face-illusion...), which just makes me feel like my eyes aren't working correctly.

dhosek 6y ago

My son has an e in his name. He often added extra crossbars when signing in to class last year when he was in kindergarten. I don't know if he still does it in first grade since parents don't enter the school building with Coronavirus. In any event, I always found the E charming. Frank Lloyd Wright's lettering (apropos since we live a couple miles from his home/studio in Oak Park), incidentally often doubled or tripled the crossbars on A and H (but not, I would note, E). Being in FLW territory, we see a lot of the Eaglefeather typeface based on his lettering [0] but I doubt that my son was inspired by that (but then again, since he was three, he has declared his intention to become and architect). [0] https://fonts.adobe.com/fonts/p22-eaglefeather https://fonts.adobe.com/fonts/p22-eaglefeather

hateful 6y ago

Maybe it has to do with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trypophobia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trypophobia

eyelidlessness 6y ago
This was my thought as well. I experience pretty pronounced trypophobia and didn’t find this unsettling, but people experience it in many different ways.

Igelau 6y ago

My guess is that the creepiness comes from the fractal-like nature of these letters -- taking the thing that makes the letter unique and overiterating it. Since nature constructs itself in fractal geometry, the letters are stuck in a half-baked transition from symbolic to organic, and our expectations are left bouncing between the two. If you could put the word "caterpillar" in a cocoon and hatch a real butterfly from it, these letters are what it would look like if someone cut the cocoon open too early.