5 ms·

You don't understand ? I don't know, maybe a decade of not listening to its actual user instead of pouring ton of work for fantasied ones ? Responsive design a

by ldng 5y ago

You don't understand ? I don't know, maybe a decade of not listening to its actual user instead of pouring ton of work for fantasied ones ? Responsive design and Tablet were the rage and going to replace every other computer. Fast-forward, has was predictable, it did not. Gnome needs to go back to the drawing board and revise assumptions made 10 years ago. And, no, keyboard shortcut do not compensate bad design. If Gnome is niche on the desktop, it is non-existent on touch devices. The project needs to get over that and start to cater to it's actual user base. See, user too can be very opinionated ;-)

alex_duf 5y ago
Or, the angry crowd who doesn't use it stops criticising an opinionated desktop, and leave the users who happen to agree with said opinions use that desktop. I love gnome the way it is. I don't minimise Windows, I love the launcher, the keyboard shortcuts make so much more sense than osx, and it's not the sluggish monster everyone seems to think it is.
- robobob 5y ago
  >the keyboard shortcuts make so much more sense than osx I was happy to see someone is happy with gnome, but the shortcuts argument makes me think you are trolling
- seniorivn 5y ago
  the valid criticism of opinionated gnome desktop is that gnome is being redesigned right now with no particular reason, just highly opinionated developers feel like it. That's weird from a gnome user perspective(the one that agreed with previous iteration of opinionated work flow).
  - pjerem 5y ago
    Well, that's the project of those "highly opinionated developers". They work for free, and they really sleep well if you prefer to install XFCE or create a fork of the previous iterations of Gnome.
    - akagusu 5y ago
      Gnome Foundation rises lots of money from both companies and individuals and there are gnome developers working full-time or part-time and being paid to do it, so this old argument "this is free software, they work for free in their spare time, they owe you nothing" doesn't apply in this context.
      - pjerem 5y ago
        Yes you are right. But the user base is not paying a cent. Of course, there is maybe some 0.0x% users who donate sometimes... « They owe you nothing » totally apply in this context. Even if you were a donator (which there are few probability you are).
kubav 5y ago
I use gnome on desktop and I liked it. Keyboard shortcuts are the most important way to control desktop for me, I do not care if it is hard to control using mouse. I do not need hierarchic program menu, start button and lots of configuration dialogs. It is true that some defaults are annoying and lots of configuration options are missing in GUI programs but it is still possible to configure basically everything using gsettings or gnome extensions (which I prefer over KDE style config). I do not like some gnome apps (i.e. nautilus or gedit) but there are alternatives so no big problem there.
- ldng 5y ago
  Then the UI is relevant to you. That does not make it any better.
pjerem 5y ago
Maybe, since Gnome is a Free software, the Gnome developers team does not owe anything to anyone ? I really like Gnome choices, but if I change my mind on a future update, who am I to rant against a project that works "for free"? Some years ago, I was myself a "really opinionated user" and well ... Linux doesn't lack of mature opinionated DE : you can do barely anything you want with XFCE, MATE and KDE. Also, I really don't understand this "touchscreen oriented Gnome". There is nothing in Gnome that is meant to be used in touch mode. Gnome ergonomics are totally built around the Super key (and now, touchpad gestures) once you get this, you understand all the gnome _desktop_ paradigm. It's really inspired by OSX where every workflow action can be done with touchpad gestures and keyboard (without moving the pointer, which is only useful inside applications). Once you get this paradigm, there is no way to go back. I really think also that Gnome was betting for better touchpad support on linux years and years ago, but it looks like we had to wait for Wayland to have something decent.
- ldng 5y ago
  They were not "betting for better touchpad" but for tablet. I remember clearly arguments being made about GNOME 3 being targeted at tablet at the time when I was on the mailing-lists.

by ldng 5y ago

alex_duf 5y ago

Or, the angry crowd who doesn't use it stops criticising an opinionated desktop, and leave the users who happen to agree with said opinions use that desktop. I love gnome the way it is. I don't minimise Windows, I love the launcher, the keyboard shortcuts make so much more sense than osx, and it's not the sluggish monster everyone seems to think it is.

robobob 5y ago
>the keyboard shortcuts make so much more sense than osx I was happy to see someone is happy with gnome, but the shortcuts argument makes me think you are trolling
seniorivn 5y ago
the valid criticism of opinionated gnome desktop is that gnome is being redesigned right now with no particular reason, just highly opinionated developers feel like it. That's weird from a gnome user perspective(the one that agreed with previous iteration of opinionated work flow).
- pjerem 5y ago
  Well, that's the project of those "highly opinionated developers". They work for free, and they really sleep well if you prefer to install XFCE or create a fork of the previous iterations of Gnome.
  - akagusu 5y ago
    Gnome Foundation rises lots of money from both companies and individuals and there are gnome developers working full-time or part-time and being paid to do it, so this old argument "this is free software, they work for free in their spare time, they owe you nothing" doesn't apply in this context.
    - pjerem 5y ago
      Yes you are right. But the user base is not paying a cent. Of course, there is maybe some 0.0x% users who donate sometimes... « They owe you nothing » totally apply in this context. Even if you were a donator (which there are few probability you are).

kubav 5y ago

I use gnome on desktop and I liked it. Keyboard shortcuts are the most important way to control desktop for me, I do not care if it is hard to control using mouse. I do not need hierarchic program menu, start button and lots of configuration dialogs. It is true that some defaults are annoying and lots of configuration options are missing in GUI programs but it is still possible to configure basically everything using gsettings or gnome extensions (which I prefer over KDE style config). I do not like some gnome apps (i.e. nautilus or gedit) but there are alternatives so no big problem there.

ldng 5y ago
Then the UI is relevant to you. That does not make it any better.

pjerem 5y ago

Maybe, since Gnome is a Free software, the Gnome developers team does not owe anything to anyone ? I really like Gnome choices, but if I change my mind on a future update, who am I to rant against a project that works "for free"? Some years ago, I was myself a "really opinionated user" and well ... Linux doesn't lack of mature opinionated DE : you can do barely anything you want with XFCE, MATE and KDE. Also, I really don't understand this "touchscreen oriented Gnome". There is nothing in Gnome that is meant to be used in touch mode. Gnome ergonomics are totally built around the Super key (and now, touchpad gestures) once you get this, you understand all the gnome _desktop_ paradigm. It's really inspired by OSX where every workflow action can be done with touchpad gestures and keyboard (without moving the pointer, which is only useful inside applications). Once you get this paradigm, there is no way to go back. I really think also that Gnome was betting for better touchpad support on linux years and years ago, but it looks like we had to wait for Wayland to have something decent.

ldng 5y ago
They were not "betting for better touchpad" but for tablet. I remember clearly arguments being made about GNOME 3 being targeted at tablet at the time when I was on the mailing-lists.