5 ms·

It's objectively the police that is the problem in the US. The killing rate per 10 million inhabitants of the US is about the same as in Columbia and Iran, and

It's objectively the police that is the problem in the US. The killing rate per 10 million inhabitants of the US is about the same as in Columbia and Iran, and about 2000% (not at typo) of the rate of most European countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforc...

AndyPa32 6y ago
I live in Germany and it's true, German police uses their guns seldomly. I guess that there are two reasons for this * Police force here is especially trained to de-escalate * We don't have liberal gun laws; when a police officer has to deal with somebody, it is highly unlikely that this person ever pulls a gun. That all does not mean that German police doesn't have problems. For example just a few weeks ago eight policemen beat up a 15 your old. Or deaths in police custody. Or they constantly turn a blind eye to right wing crimes. Or the police fore themselves is soaked with right wing activists. The list goes on.
- austincheney 6y ago
  I think people fail to accept that it’s not a difference in police culture but a difference in gun culture. Consider that Switzerland has far more guns per capita than does the US and their gun crimes and gun related violence are very low.
  - oblio 6y ago
    It's both. From what I've read most police officers in the US are barely high school graduates. Even in Romania, which is kind of low on the European ladder of development, the Police Academy is an actual university. You go there to study for ~4 years, if I recall correctly, and there's stiff competition to get in (back when I finished high school I think there were 5-10 candidates for 1 spot).
    - throwawayboise 6y ago
      > From what I've read most police officers in the US are barely high school graduates Where did you read this?
      - oblio 6y ago
        I can't say I have statistics, but I've been involved in enough online forum debates to find out (and be horrified) that the US police academy is at best a 6 month long thing (post high shool). I'd love to be proven wrong and find out that the majority of US police officers are well educated, and I mean that in the sense that they have advanced training about their jobs, de-escalation, law, etc.).
        throwawayboise 6y ago
        I haven't looked into the question myself, but admit I misread your comment to mean "barely graduated high school" not "barely [more than] high school graduates." I do know that there is no "US police academy" or standardized national training curriculum; it's all at the state level, and within states even municipalites can have their own requirements and standards.
      - gremlinsinc 6y ago
        The average US police department requires fewer hours of training than what it takes to become a barber or a plumber - 672 hours of basic training. https://www.insider.com/some-police-academies-require-fewer-hours-of-training-plumbing-2020-6 https://www.insider.com/some-police-academies-require-fewer-... Where a cop should be required 4 year degree at a minimum, with required courses in sociology, communications, psychology, anything else that might help them w/ behavior and de-escalation and staying calm under pressure. They should also have the same requirements for continuing education as nurses, doctors, teachers.
    - austincheney 6y ago
      > From what I've read most police officers in the US are barely high school graduates. I recently worked with a police officer on a side gig. Most of the officers in that police force had a baccalaureate and several were former attorneys. The distinction of rate of education seems to come down to level of compensation.
  - bildung 6y ago
    > I think people fail to accept that it’s not a difference in police culture but a difference in gun culture. That would be a reasonable assumption if the number of unarmed victims were 0. Over 15% of the victims are unarmed though. https://jech.bmj.com/content/75/4/394 https://jech.bmj.com/content/75/4/394
  - vidarh 6y ago
    According to Wikipedia, Switzerland is 19th [1] (the list includes some territories that are not independent countries, though) in terms of civilian-owned guns. With the US having twice as many per capita as number 2. If you go by households with a gun the numbers are more reasonable, however. The US is driven up by a small proportion of gun owners that own a large number of guns. I don't think that contradicts your argument that it's a difference in gun culture, though. On the contrary - I think it's a demonstration of one aspect of the difference. It's not that more people have guns in the US, but that more people have guns for self-defence. And a subset of those hoard large number of guns. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g...
    - austincheney 6y ago
      Perhaps I incorrectly based my thought on this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Switzerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Switzer...

AndyPa32 6y ago

I live in Germany and it's true, German police uses their guns seldomly. I guess that there are two reasons for this * Police force here is especially trained to de-escalate * We don't have liberal gun laws; when a police officer has to deal with somebody, it is highly unlikely that this person ever pulls a gun. That all does not mean that German police doesn't have problems. For example just a few weeks ago eight policemen beat up a 15 your old. Or deaths in police custody. Or they constantly turn a blind eye to right wing crimes. Or the police fore themselves is soaked with right wing activists. The list goes on.

austincheney 6y ago
I think people fail to accept that it’s not a difference in police culture but a difference in gun culture. Consider that Switzerland has far more guns per capita than does the US and their gun crimes and gun related violence are very low.
- oblio 6y ago
  It's both. From what I've read most police officers in the US are barely high school graduates. Even in Romania, which is kind of low on the European ladder of development, the Police Academy is an actual university. You go there to study for ~4 years, if I recall correctly, and there's stiff competition to get in (back when I finished high school I think there were 5-10 candidates for 1 spot).
  - throwawayboise 6y ago
    > From what I've read most police officers in the US are barely high school graduates Where did you read this?
    - oblio 6y ago
      I can't say I have statistics, but I've been involved in enough online forum debates to find out (and be horrified) that the US police academy is at best a 6 month long thing (post high shool). I'd love to be proven wrong and find out that the majority of US police officers are well educated, and I mean that in the sense that they have advanced training about their jobs, de-escalation, law, etc.).
      - throwawayboise 6y ago
        I haven't looked into the question myself, but admit I misread your comment to mean "barely graduated high school" not "barely [more than] high school graduates." I do know that there is no "US police academy" or standardized national training curriculum; it's all at the state level, and within states even municipalites can have their own requirements and standards.
    - gremlinsinc 6y ago
      The average US police department requires fewer hours of training than what it takes to become a barber or a plumber - 672 hours of basic training. https://www.insider.com/some-police-academies-require-fewer-hours-of-training-plumbing-2020-6 https://www.insider.com/some-police-academies-require-fewer-... Where a cop should be required 4 year degree at a minimum, with required courses in sociology, communications, psychology, anything else that might help them w/ behavior and de-escalation and staying calm under pressure. They should also have the same requirements for continuing education as nurses, doctors, teachers.
  - austincheney 6y ago
    > From what I've read most police officers in the US are barely high school graduates. I recently worked with a police officer on a side gig. Most of the officers in that police force had a baccalaureate and several were former attorneys. The distinction of rate of education seems to come down to level of compensation.
- bildung 6y ago
  > I think people fail to accept that it’s not a difference in police culture but a difference in gun culture. That would be a reasonable assumption if the number of unarmed victims were 0. Over 15% of the victims are unarmed though. https://jech.bmj.com/content/75/4/394 https://jech.bmj.com/content/75/4/394
- vidarh 6y ago
  According to Wikipedia, Switzerland is 19th [1] (the list includes some territories that are not independent countries, though) in terms of civilian-owned guns. With the US having twice as many per capita as number 2. If you go by households with a gun the numbers are more reasonable, however. The US is driven up by a small proportion of gun owners that own a large number of guns. I don't think that contradicts your argument that it's a difference in gun culture, though. On the contrary - I think it's a demonstration of one aspect of the difference. It's not that more people have guns in the US, but that more people have guns for self-defence. And a subset of those hoard large number of guns. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g...
  - austincheney 6y ago
    Perhaps I incorrectly based my thought on this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Switzerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Switzer...