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AMD's EPYC Milan Breaks Cinebench Record, Here's a 10nm Ice Lake Xeon Comparison
- zibzab 5y agoWith all the hype around new efficient laptop CPUs I had to check how they compare to this monster... This thing: 113K Best AMD laptop CPU: 11K Best intel laptop: 7.5K Beat Apple laptop: 7.5K That is 12x to 15x slower, which honesty was better than I expected.
- mvanaltvorst 5y agoIf you take this CPU with its 280W TDP and scale it down to 18W like an Apple M1, you get a score of ~7200 while the Apple M1 gets 7700. Actually pretty amazing how close the performance per watt is to be honest; totally different form factors, different CPU architecture, different R&D (both having spent billions of dollars), different fabs, but still within 10% performance/watt. Makes you wonder how close we are to the physical limits.
- zibzab 5y agoYeah, but don't forget that creating systems with massive core count is much more than just scaling up. It is a whole different science and art. Just handling the heat generated by 280W requires teams of hundreds of engineers. And IPC for 8 cores is child play compared to IPC for 64 cores. You can already see this with M1: the 10W M1 reaches 7.5K while the 18W (15?) M1 is IIRC around 8.7K on cinebench
- makkesk8 5y agoKeep in mind that every vendor defines TDP differently, linustechtips have highlighted this many times and even has a video on it [1]. So comparing TDP across manufactures is not a fair comparison. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDWO177BjZY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDWO177BjZY
- fleetfox 5y agoProbably large chunk of that difference is consumed by interconnect (infinity fabric)
- hajile 5y agoAnandtech says during their testing that pretty much all the chips were in the 220w range. At 18w and 7,833 points, that's 435 per watt for the M1 At 440w for 2 chips and 113,631 points, that's 258 per watt for the Milan At around 140w and 10,096, that's about 74 per watt for the 5950x At around 75w and 4,517, that's about 61 per watt for the 5600x At around 140w and 5,994, that's about 43 per watt for the 5800x Frequency scaling is TERRIBLE for PPW (performance per watt). The screaming almost 5GHz 5800 cores lose efficiency to the downclocking 5950 cores by almost 2x. Vs the 2.5GHz Milan, it's right at 6x difference. Apple is on the right track pushing wider rather than faster, but that seems like a path that is hard for x86 to take due to decoder power and complexity (decode units literally eat up more die space than the actual integer math units). It isn't all roses though. A huge portion (30-50%) of the Milan power budget is the interconnect. If you double the TDP on the M1 to simulate the interconnect, PPW drops to around 217 which is about 16% worse than AMD. We also haven't factored in how AMD gets a huge performance boost with a quarter-gig of cache. Apple likely has to scale up their cache too. 16mb and 8 cores is 2mb/core. 256mb/64 is 4mb/core. But because it's multicore and all cores don't necessarily do the same job at the same time on a server, M1's deal with the devil starts to fade. It will need even more cache per core to keep up with the ultra-wide execution path (else lose PPW) which will increase total power and further reduce max clockspeeds. M1 is a great chip in laptops, but if scaling up were easy, everyone would be doing it. https://www.anandtech.com/show/16529/amd-epyc-milan-review/5 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16529/amd-epyc-milan-review/5 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16252/mac-mini-apple-m1-tested/2 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16252/mac-mini-apple-m1-teste... https://www.anandtech.com/show/16214/amd-zen-3-ryzen-deep-dive-review-5950x-5900x-5800x-and-5700x-tested/8 https://www.anandtech.com/show/16214/amd-zen-3-ryzen-deep-di...
- walrus01 5y agoCooling: "Liquid Nitrogen" reminds me of the amazing day when somebody first overclocked a slot based AMD Athlon to 1.0 GHz using a custom refrigerant loop system.
- FuckButtons 5y agoCooling with Liquid nitrogen is in some ways simpler than a refrigerator cycle since it’s completely impractical to compress & recondense it. A cryogenic cooling system usually just vents the gas into the room, it may just be a little well around the part which gets filled with ln2 from a dewar.
- walrus01 5y agoIndeed so, I remember seeing people do temporary "overclocking world records" with things like 900 MHz Pentium 3s, and Athlons, around twenty years ago, bare motherboard on an open table with liquid nitrogen dewar mounted to the CPU socket. Guys pouring more nitrogen into the thing as it evaporates and they run benchmarks. I guess the procedure for that probably hasn't changed very much, since it's a very ephemeral and temporary process.
- galangalalgol 5y agoDo you need some form of sonicator to keep bubbles from sticking?
- qzw 5y agoOne reference point: my home built Ryzen 3700x machine gets almost exactly 100,000 points less than the system they tested.
- zibzab 5y agoThat's laptop territory for zen3 :( I urgently need a new computer but have been holding for cheap zen3 machines to become available since the difference in performance is so huge.
- maesij 5y agoFunny maths, "As you can see, in Cinebench R23, the dual EPYC Milan 7763's are 34% faster than the dual Ice Lake Xeon 8380's."
- taneliv 5y agoYeah, I also wondered about that, isn't it more like 52% faster?
- TwoBit 5y agoDepends on how you define the math of "x% faster than"
- AussieWog93 5y agoThe English language defines the denominator in your equation as the object of the sentence. If you have 100 blue smarties in a bowl, and there are 20% more red smarties than blue, then you have 120 red smarties. There is no ambiguity.
- m463 5y agoI think that percentages shouldn't be used for things like this. Show an absolute time, how many units/second of work. percentages just (intentionally??) confuse things. the problem is that %faster and %slower are not equal
- tromp 5y agoIndeed, the EPYC is 52% faster than the Xeon, which makes the Xeon 34% slower than then EPYC.
- TwoBit 5y ago(113000 - 74000) / 113000 = 34%
- mkl 5y agoYes, but that's the opposite denominator from usual. If I say I got 50% more apples from my trees this year, I can only really mean (this_year - last_year)/last_year = 50% (i.e. 1.5 times as many).
- atdrummond 5y agoSadly, I’ve had to stick with Intel, even with the performance penalty. Why? The massive AMD core counts were killing us on licensing costs. Until we can renegotiate our contracts, we remain an Intel shop.
- skavi 5y agoIIRC AMD offers high frequency lower core count SKUs. Would those not work for your situation?
- abestic9 5y agoThe 72F3 was made almost specifically for this use case, though it's comparable (and may even fall behind per-core) to the Xeon 8356H.
- atdrummond 5y agoThat was my preference but we honestly had trouble with our first order of them (delivery kept slipping) for testing and then our preferred vendors struggled to get sufficient inventory. My hope is to get the contracts reworked in such a way that I’m not paying more for less if I go AMD with the next procurement.
- Qub3d 5y ago100%. I wish you luck in the midst of this chip shortage!
- dvfjsdhgfv 5y agoIt looks like your vendor is not keeping up with the times.
- merb 5y agoit doesn't specifically we are a dell shop and they always priced their amd epyc server's higher. I'm not sure why, maybe they also added their board design development costs on top, where as intel they have more knowledge, so it's cheaper? no clue, but sometimes it's really wierd that we get really good prices for intel, but not for amd.
- syspec 5y ago> As a quick reminder, AMD's flagship 7763 server chips come armed with the 64 Zen 3 cores and 128 threads apiece and have a 2.45 GHz base and 3.5 GHz boost frequency. All told, we're looking at a Cinebench run with 128 cores and 256 threads, which you can see in the tweet below: Can someone clarify this wording? It has 64 cores which can each do 128 threads? That doesn't seem right... but then later it says it has 128 cores
- flumpcakes 5y ago1 processor has 64 cores with SMT giving 128 hardware threads. In a dual socket configuration that is: 2 processors, 128 cores, 256 threads.
- totalZero 5y agoDual 7763s, each with 64 cores (128 threads). The "apiece" modifies chips, not cores.
- wdroz 5y agoI'm looking forward for the scores of the Zen3 AMD threadripper. I'm just not sure if I should upgrade as soon as they are out or if I should wait the next-gen for DDR5...