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Oh on a philosophical level it is quite unfair. It's not fair at all that all humans are not regarded as equals. It's really unfair that I should be withheld fr
by fastfinner 15y ago
Oh on a philosophical level it is quite unfair. It's not fair at all that all humans are not regarded as equals. It's really unfair that I should be withheld from visiting or living on a piece of the planet because there happens the be a group of people on it that made a "nation" and the "nation" has invisible "borders" and the "borders" are by "law" not penetrable by people from my "nation".
But such is the case. If Jose or anyone else wants to change this inherent unfairness they can do that.
Meanwhile, though, I have no sympathy for people who are trying to shortcut the established processes. The "hope for a better life" just doesn't justify bypassing all the other people that wait in line. It is extremely unfair to the people who are also trying to immigrate to the US, but do so by entering lotteries, applying for GCs and all.
- fastfinner 15y agoMay I learn the reason of the down-vote? I am answering to the issue of the fairness of citizenship-by-birth raised in the parent. I draw a distinction between entrenched inequality in world order and the more amenable inequalities.
- trustfundbaby 15y agoI didn't downvote you but I bet its for this "Meanwhile, though, I have no sympathy for people who are trying to shortcut the established processes" The guy didn't choose to be put in that situation, that decision was made for him. I think that's deserving of some empathy ... but that's just me.
- dennisgorelik 15y agoYou are NOT answering the issue of fairness of citizenship-by-birth. You are just claiming that it's ok to have discrimination by contry of birth. Well, unfair discrimination is NOT OK. That's why you are getting downvoted. I personally did not downvote you. Even though I strongly disagree - at least you are trying to understand.
- freshfunk 15y agoYou're framing the argument in a way that makes your position stronger and his weaker. But, in your framing, I think you miss some basic points. For me, it comes down to what he said here: >Meanwhile, though, I have no sympathy for people who are trying to shortcut the established processes. The "hope for a better life" just doesn't justify bypassing all the other people that wait in line. The thing is that everyone else who is in the line is also hoping for a better life. So what justifies someone cutting? In this specific case, he had no choice in the matter (put on a plane as a kid) so I think he should be allowed to stay. But every other adult is, in my opinion, cutting in line.
- dennisgorelik 15y agoInstead of comparing illegal immigrants against legal immigrants, focus on comparing illegal immigrants against citizens who got their privileges by birth. Share with us why immigrants are discriminated against and if this discrimination is fair.
- dennisgorelik 15y agoAmerica established immigration system in order to make it NOT fair [for immigrants]. Prior to introducing that immigration system there was no legal discrimination by country of origin. Whether there should be no concept of citizenry is a different topic outside of scope of this discussion.
- freshfunk 15y agoHow is it not fair? Because you say so? Because you disagree with the system? Is it more fair to have a free for all where people sneak in? It's convenient to say something is not fair as justification to break all the rules.
- dennisgorelik 15y agoBy default discrimination is not fair. Sometimes discrimination is justified (e.g. thieves are sent to prison because they harm society). But what is the justification for discriminating immigrants?
- wnight 15y ago> But such is the case. If Jose or anyone else wants to change this inherent unfairness they can do that. Many undocumented immigrants are. They're ignoring it. And, if you do catch and deport them, at great cost, you're just cutting one more local job. Congrats.