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> Shortly after being charged with espionage, Snowden flew to Russia, where he was granted asylum, then residency. The article seems neutral about Snowden, but

> Shortly after being charged with espionage, Snowden flew to Russia, where he was granted asylum, then residency. The article seems neutral about Snowden, but this characterization of events is bad reporting. He did not fly with the intent of staying in Russia. He was grounded and his passport revoked by the US gov. mid travel, stranding him in Russia, in the airport, for over a month. Eventually Russia granted him long term status there.

rriepe 5y ago
It's particularly bad because it's a pattern that people need to know about. Being trapped politically somewhere like that happened to both Snowden and Assange.
- valdiorn 5y ago
  Bobby Fischer as well. He was stuck in Japan for months until receiving an emergency passport from the Icelandic government. That fact that this is legal is... sketchy. Same with Shamima Begum, for that matter.
  - tyre 5y ago
    The fact that what is legal? That a company can revoke a passport issued by itself? Seems pretty reasonable. Maybe people could disagree on specific examples, but the principle seems fine. US passports say in them that they can be revoked for a variety of reasons.
    - adgjlsfhk1 5y ago
      It has the problem that it violates the UN charter for human rights which says that nations may not make people nationless.
      - BoysenberryPi 5y ago
        They are not nationless. Revoking someone's passport is not revoking someone's citizenship. Snowden was and is still a US citizen.
      - astrea 5y ago
        The UN is a toothless exercise in futility, much like its predecessor.
        throwaway_kufu 5y ago
        Tell that to Charles Taylor or Slobodan Milošević. As far as it’s predecessor my guess if you are referencing the League of Nations rather than the international military tribunals that conducted the Nuremberg Trials that hung 10 Nazi’s with ropes to short to break their necks and choked them to death.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- de6u99er 5y ago
  Assnange and Snowden are not really comparable. Assange is an Australian citizen, and the US want d to lock bim up for publishing leaked information, while Snowden id an US citizen and leaked the info by himself.
  - rriepe 5y ago
    If you can't compare, why not try contrasting? The differences in their cases should tell you exactly what the US government cares about. It's not citizenship and it's not journalism.
lern_too_spel 5y ago
He initially flew to Hong Kong and tried to gain asylum there by sharing details of Chinese network targets. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1266892/exclusive-nsa-targeted-chinas-tsinghua-university-extensive-hacking https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1266892/exclusive-ns... He was charged with espionage while in Hong Kong. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-charges-snowden-with-espionage/2013/06/21/507497d8-dab1-11e2-a016-92547bf094cc_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-ch... China didn't want Snowden in Hong Kong but also did not want to appear to acquiesce to US demands, so Snowden tried to get to Ecuador, which would grant him asylum. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-hongkong-idUSBRE95N07K20130624 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-hongkong-idU... Then he got "stuck" in Russia, which suited Putin just fine. Russia doesn't care about Snowden's travel documents being revoked and would happily fly him to Ecuador if it matched their interests. The article's timeline of Snowden flying to Russia after being charged with espionage looks correct.
- steviedotboston 5y ago
  No, he's a brave hero who just happened to try to purchase the goodwill of multiple foreign entities by offering classified documents.
- nyolfen 5y ago
  snowden's passport was revoked while he was in the air, before he landed in russia > He initially flew to Hong Kong and tried to gain asylum there by sharing details of Chinese network targets. this accusation is unsubstantiated in the link you provide
  - lern_too_spel 5y ago
    That link shows he gave up details of US government espionage on Chinese networks. The third link I posted details how Snowden tried to gain asylum in Hong Kong. Edit: I can't respond due to downvotes: Tell me why you think he released a list of compromised Chinese systems and when they were compromised while he was in China. Tell me why you think he chose to flee to Hong Kong and talk to reporters there. It seems obvious to me why, but maybe you have another explanation.
steviedotboston 5y ago
>He did not fly with the intent of staying in Russia. Keep telling yourself that. The dude has been a Russian asset from the start.
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  I wouldn't go that far. I think Hanlon's Razor applies to Snowden's case. He seemed absolutely convinced that PRISM was a big story, which anybody with a fifth grade reading ability could tell was a non-story. https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2020/05/11/2013-edward-snowden-leaked-top-secret-national-security-agency-documents-showing-how-us-was-spying-its-citizens-heres-what-happened-next/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2020/05/11/2013-edwa... If he were really a Russian asset, he wouldn't have made a claim that he has since had to stop claiming (instead playing up phone metadata collection for reporters), or he would have admitted that he was wrong to gain credibility. Instead, he looked like a fool and just stopped talking about it out of embarrassment.
  - mhh__ 5y ago
    > He seemed absolutely convinced that PRISM was a big story, which anybody with a fifth grade reading ability could tell was a non-story. Why?
    - trynton 5y ago
      Maybe 'lern_too_spel' means something much worse. Like the product of such blanket surveillance being used by the spooks to blackmail our purported democratically elected leaders. A bit like the Praetorian Guard ended up effectively ruling the Roman Empire.
  - site-packages1 5y ago
    "He seemed absolutely convinced that PRISM was a big story, which anybody with a fifth grade reading ability could tell was a non-story." What do you mean by this? I read the article, or at least skimmed it. Is it because everyone siphons everyone's data and the fact that the gov is doing it is unremarkable?
inter_netuser 5y ago
Is Snowden under some kind of legal sanctions or some list or something? Could the buyer be liable for dealing with Snowden? e.g. abetting a fugitive?
- OneLeggedCat 5y ago
  ooo. Abetting a fugitive. Seems likely enough, if the political will is there.
- hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
  The money is going to the Freedom of the Press Foundation, so no.
  - inter_netuser 5y ago
    Maybe in terms of taxes. Criminal liability is not absolved by making a donation..
purple_ferret 5y ago
He flew to Russia because he knew he'd get asylum there. Even was in contact with Russian diplomats while in Hong Kong, according to Putin himself.[0] Not sure why it's so important for Snowden people to push the narrative that it was some fortuitous accident. It obviously was strategized in some way, even if it were just some sort of backup country. [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/putin-admits-early-snowden-contact-1378344067 https://www.wsj.com/articles/putin-admits-early-snowden-cont...
- dTal 5y ago
  I am curious how reliable a source of information you regard "Putin himself" to be?
ffggvv 5y ago
it literally just says he flew to russia. which is a fact. do you want some multi-paragraph explanation of the contingencies every time its briefly mentioned?
- generalizations 5y ago
  He tried to fly to Ecuador, not Russia. That is the fact. He also got stuck en route to Ecuador, in Russia. The intention is completely different.
dragontamer 5y ago
> He did not fly with the intent of staying in Russia. He was grounded and his passport revoked by the US gov. mid travel, stranding him in Russia, in the airport, for over a month. From my memory: his passport was revoked when he was in China (I think Hong Kong). A confusing sequence of events followed, and then he ended up in Russia somehow.

rriepe 5y ago

It's particularly bad because it's a pattern that people need to know about. Being trapped politically somewhere like that happened to both Snowden and Assange.

valdiorn 5y ago
Bobby Fischer as well. He was stuck in Japan for months until receiving an emergency passport from the Icelandic government. That fact that this is legal is... sketchy. Same with Shamima Begum, for that matter.
- tyre 5y ago
  The fact that what is legal? That a company can revoke a passport issued by itself? Seems pretty reasonable. Maybe people could disagree on specific examples, but the principle seems fine. US passports say in them that they can be revoked for a variety of reasons.
  - adgjlsfhk1 5y ago
    It has the problem that it violates the UN charter for human rights which says that nations may not make people nationless.
    - BoysenberryPi 5y ago
      They are not nationless. Revoking someone's passport is not revoking someone's citizenship. Snowden was and is still a US citizen.
    - astrea 5y ago
      The UN is a toothless exercise in futility, much like its predecessor.
      - throwaway_kufu 5y ago
        Tell that to Charles Taylor or Slobodan Milošević. As far as it’s predecessor my guess if you are referencing the League of Nations rather than the international military tribunals that conducted the Nuremberg Trials that hung 10 Nazi’s with ropes to short to break their necks and choked them to death.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
de6u99er 5y ago
Assnange and Snowden are not really comparable. Assange is an Australian citizen, and the US want d to lock bim up for publishing leaked information, while Snowden id an US citizen and leaked the info by himself.
- rriepe 5y ago
  If you can't compare, why not try contrasting? The differences in their cases should tell you exactly what the US government cares about. It's not citizenship and it's not journalism.

lern_too_spel 5y ago

He initially flew to Hong Kong and tried to gain asylum there by sharing details of Chinese network targets. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1266892/exclusive-nsa-targeted-chinas-tsinghua-university-extensive-hacking https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1266892/exclusive-ns... He was charged with espionage while in Hong Kong. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-charges-snowden-with-espionage/2013/06/21/507497d8-dab1-11e2-a016-92547bf094cc_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-ch... China didn't want Snowden in Hong Kong but also did not want to appear to acquiesce to US demands, so Snowden tried to get to Ecuador, which would grant him asylum. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-hongkong-idUSBRE95N07K20130624 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-security-hongkong-idU... Then he got "stuck" in Russia, which suited Putin just fine. Russia doesn't care about Snowden's travel documents being revoked and would happily fly him to Ecuador if it matched their interests. The article's timeline of Snowden flying to Russia after being charged with espionage looks correct.

steviedotboston 5y ago
No, he's a brave hero who just happened to try to purchase the goodwill of multiple foreign entities by offering classified documents.
nyolfen 5y ago
snowden's passport was revoked while he was in the air, before he landed in russia > He initially flew to Hong Kong and tried to gain asylum there by sharing details of Chinese network targets. this accusation is unsubstantiated in the link you provide
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  That link shows he gave up details of US government espionage on Chinese networks. The third link I posted details how Snowden tried to gain asylum in Hong Kong. Edit: I can't respond due to downvotes: Tell me why you think he released a list of compromised Chinese systems and when they were compromised while he was in China. Tell me why you think he chose to flee to Hong Kong and talk to reporters there. It seems obvious to me why, but maybe you have another explanation.

steviedotboston 5y ago

>He did not fly with the intent of staying in Russia. Keep telling yourself that. The dude has been a Russian asset from the start.

lern_too_spel 5y ago
I wouldn't go that far. I think Hanlon's Razor applies to Snowden's case. He seemed absolutely convinced that PRISM was a big story, which anybody with a fifth grade reading ability could tell was a non-story. https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2020/05/11/2013-edward-snowden-leaked-top-secret-national-security-agency-documents-showing-how-us-was-spying-its-citizens-heres-what-happened-next/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2020/05/11/2013-edwa... If he were really a Russian asset, he wouldn't have made a claim that he has since had to stop claiming (instead playing up phone metadata collection for reporters), or he would have admitted that he was wrong to gain credibility. Instead, he looked like a fool and just stopped talking about it out of embarrassment.
- mhh__ 5y ago
  > He seemed absolutely convinced that PRISM was a big story, which anybody with a fifth grade reading ability could tell was a non-story. Why?
  - trynton 5y ago
    Maybe 'lern_too_spel' means something much worse. Like the product of such blanket surveillance being used by the spooks to blackmail our purported democratically elected leaders. A bit like the Praetorian Guard ended up effectively ruling the Roman Empire.
- site-packages1 5y ago
  "He seemed absolutely convinced that PRISM was a big story, which anybody with a fifth grade reading ability could tell was a non-story." What do you mean by this? I read the article, or at least skimmed it. Is it because everyone siphons everyone's data and the fact that the gov is doing it is unremarkable?

inter_netuser 5y ago

Is Snowden under some kind of legal sanctions or some list or something? Could the buyer be liable for dealing with Snowden? e.g. abetting a fugitive?

OneLeggedCat 5y ago
ooo. Abetting a fugitive. Seems likely enough, if the political will is there.
hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
The money is going to the Freedom of the Press Foundation, so no.
- inter_netuser 5y ago
  Maybe in terms of taxes. Criminal liability is not absolved by making a donation..

purple_ferret 5y ago

He flew to Russia because he knew he'd get asylum there. Even was in contact with Russian diplomats while in Hong Kong, according to Putin himself.[0] Not sure why it's so important for Snowden people to push the narrative that it was some fortuitous accident. It obviously was strategized in some way, even if it were just some sort of backup country. [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/putin-admits-early-snowden-contact-1378344067 https://www.wsj.com/articles/putin-admits-early-snowden-cont...

dTal 5y ago
I am curious how reliable a source of information you regard "Putin himself" to be?

ffggvv 5y ago

it literally just says he flew to russia. which is a fact. do you want some multi-paragraph explanation of the contingencies every time its briefly mentioned?

generalizations 5y ago
He tried to fly to Ecuador, not Russia. That is the fact. He also got stuck en route to Ecuador, in Russia. The intention is completely different.

dragontamer 5y ago

> He did not fly with the intent of staying in Russia. He was grounded and his passport revoked by the US gov. mid travel, stranding him in Russia, in the airport, for over a month. From my memory: his passport was revoked when he was in China (I think Hong Kong). A confusing sequence of events followed, and then he ended up in Russia somehow.