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Do you even know how businesses are supposed to operate in China if they’re from the outside? My understanding from a security friend is there are all these hur

Do you even know how businesses are supposed to operate in China if they’re from the outside? My understanding from a security friend is there are all these hurdles and the Chinese government wants access to networks and source code for anything that’s operating within the country. Also, there have been plenty of stories on HN where American businesses are ripped off by China knockoffs and there’s no way to really sue them or stop them in court. China has its claws in everything. Everything that’s based out of China should be considered an entity working for the government. Even Huawei

ethbr0 5y ago
You also described America, circa-1800s.
- tpmx 5y ago
  We're living now, not in the 1800s. That may be historically interesting, but not that much interesting beyond that. It's not about who's "good" and who's "evil", now or then.
  - hda2 5y ago
    I think GP's implied point about copying ideas still stands. Like the US in the 1800s, they're not just making clones. They're making better ones. They're innovating. Taking good ideas and improving them is - and will always be - the fundamental corner stone of human development. That's why "ripping off" more advanced competitors worked out well for the US when they did it, it worked out well for Japan when they did it, it's working out well for China now that they're doing it, and it will work out well for whoever decides to work hard next. Do you know what isn't fundamental to human development? Made-up concepts like intellectual "property" that only serve the stagnant that aim to rent-seek (and not innovate). These concepts are what lulled the US into a false sense of security and allowed China to excel. The reality of the matter is that IP laws are nonsense. They only serve to hold back those it binds. Instead of being upset when other people don't play by your made-up rules, you should work harder and become competitive again. Disclosure: I have no love for China. It is a horrible country with disgustingly abhorrent views. That said, I don't think we should put our collective heads in the sand and avoid addressing the giant elephant thrashing in our room.
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      This is one of the best comments I think I've ever read on HN. Concise, summarizing a lot of things, and saying it well (much better than I could!). Thanks!
comodore_ 5y ago
Since these companies operate only with the blessing of the CCP and are under its control, they all should be considered foreign agents when conducting business outside of china.
justicezyx 5y ago
> My understanding from a security friend is there are all these hurdles and the Chinese government wants access to networks and source code for anything that’s operating within the country. The famous “friend” who can corroborate any statement without being humiliated after being harshly refuted... If you think CCP is so rich that they can hire enough people to make sense of the code of all businesses in China, then you might as well outsource all your IT development to CCP, because AFAIK, CCP government employee and contractors are dirt cheap...

ethbr0 5y ago

You also described America, circa-1800s.

tpmx 5y ago
We're living now, not in the 1800s. That may be historically interesting, but not that much interesting beyond that. It's not about who's "good" and who's "evil", now or then.
- hda2 5y ago
  I think GP's implied point about copying ideas still stands. Like the US in the 1800s, they're not just making clones. They're making better ones. They're innovating. Taking good ideas and improving them is - and will always be - the fundamental corner stone of human development. That's why "ripping off" more advanced competitors worked out well for the US when they did it, it worked out well for Japan when they did it, it's working out well for China now that they're doing it, and it will work out well for whoever decides to work hard next. Do you know what isn't fundamental to human development? Made-up concepts like intellectual "property" that only serve the stagnant that aim to rent-seek (and not innovate). These concepts are what lulled the US into a false sense of security and allowed China to excel. The reality of the matter is that IP laws are nonsense. They only serve to hold back those it binds. Instead of being upset when other people don't play by your made-up rules, you should work harder and become competitive again. Disclosure: I have no love for China. It is a horrible country with disgustingly abhorrent views. That said, I don't think we should put our collective heads in the sand and avoid addressing the giant elephant thrashing in our room.
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    This is one of the best comments I think I've ever read on HN. Concise, summarizing a lot of things, and saying it well (much better than I could!). Thanks!

comodore_ 5y ago

Since these companies operate only with the blessing of the CCP and are under its control, they all should be considered foreign agents when conducting business outside of china.

justicezyx 5y ago

> My understanding from a security friend is there are all these hurdles and the Chinese government wants access to networks and source code for anything that’s operating within the country. The famous “friend” who can corroborate any statement without being humiliated after being harshly refuted... If you think CCP is so rich that they can hire enough people to make sense of the code of all businesses in China, then you might as well outsource all your IT development to CCP, because AFAIK, CCP government employee and contractors are dirt cheap...