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Do you see capitalism as working for/against our future?

salawat 5y ago
It can be both in different ways. You're stuck in either or thinking. And keep in mind, capitalism (when working properly) is supposed to find minima. Not create further barriers to getting things done. The group that gets the job done at the highest output:input ratio for as long as the problem they are solving is relevant was the intended optimization point. Irrational markets being what they are, this frequently does not converge as planned.
- lofi_lory 5y ago
  Capitalism's search for minima isn't linked to human welfare tho. Therefore the minima may or may not align with humanity's long term interests. Right now the system seems on track to optimize for our extinction. Without regulation, most essential markets fail humans. And finally an ancap "free market economy" was the default state of the world and the whole of human history has been the struggle to overcome/refine that stake based hell.
lofi_lory 5y ago
Do you mean "capitalism" as in the dogmatic belief an unregulated market will somehow manage human needs to their benefit? Yeah, I think that's an extremely ignorant and outdated ideology. Which is evidently progressing towards human extinction. Optimizing towards the metric of monetary reward/economic growth is just horribly disconnected from human welfare. There is also the fallacy of assuming all things interchangeable for market dynamics when in reality some things running out means "down-regulating demand" by killing off most of the population, e.g. phosphate rock. Capitalism isn't set up to get us two cookies later. There is just no incentive for the market to give a fuck about humans. It's like the "stamp making AI" thought experiment. Or the attention optimizing algorithms mindlessly destroying political culture. Oversimplified metrics spiralling out of control. Tho, economists have realized this and most markets are recognized to fail without regulation for their inherent nature. E.g. housing, water, electricity, education, ...
- zapataband1 5y ago
  C'mon dude, any day now it will become profitable to stop exploiting natural resources, house the homeless, and build towards a future where we aren't completely replaced by robots (see dominos, see boston dynamics, see fruit picking robots)....any day now...bum da ba dum if you believe in magic... /s

It can be both in different ways. You're stuck in either or thinking. And keep in mind, capitalism (when working properly) is supposed to find minima. Not create further barriers to getting things done. The group that gets the job done at the highest output:input ratio for as long as the problem they are solving is relevant was the intended optimization point. Irrational markets being what they are, this frequently does not converge as planned.

lofi_lory 5y ago
Capitalism's search for minima isn't linked to human welfare tho. Therefore the minima may or may not align with humanity's long term interests. Right now the system seems on track to optimize for our extinction. Without regulation, most essential markets fail humans. And finally an ancap "free market economy" was the default state of the world and the whole of human history has been the struggle to overcome/refine that stake based hell.

lofi_lory 5y ago

Do you mean "capitalism" as in the dogmatic belief an unregulated market will somehow manage human needs to their benefit? Yeah, I think that's an extremely ignorant and outdated ideology. Which is evidently progressing towards human extinction. Optimizing towards the metric of monetary reward/economic growth is just horribly disconnected from human welfare. There is also the fallacy of assuming all things interchangeable for market dynamics when in reality some things running out means "down-regulating demand" by killing off most of the population, e.g. phosphate rock. Capitalism isn't set up to get us two cookies later. There is just no incentive for the market to give a fuck about humans. It's like the "stamp making AI" thought experiment. Or the attention optimizing algorithms mindlessly destroying political culture. Oversimplified metrics spiralling out of control. Tho, economists have realized this and most markets are recognized to fail without regulation for their inherent nature. E.g. housing, water, electricity, education, ...

zapataband1 5y ago
C'mon dude, any day now it will become profitable to stop exploiting natural resources, house the homeless, and build towards a future where we aren't completely replaced by robots (see dominos, see boston dynamics, see fruit picking robots)....any day now...bum da ba dum if you believe in magic... /s