4 ms·

As one of the many people who hold that sex work is NOT real work, and is instead deeply exploitative and nasty, I'm glad that this is being done. Sex workers i

by Klwohu 5y ago

As one of the many people who hold that sex work is NOT real work, and is instead deeply exploitative and nasty, I'm glad that this is being done. Sex workers in recent times have taken over Reddit, the sex worker spam is unrelenting. Not sure if it's bot-driven or what, but it's unacceptable.

RosanaAnaDana 5y ago
>sex work is NOT real work What a weird perspective. Do you consider performance music or performance artists to also not do real work? Do you think that successful internet sex workers are putting in less than 40 hours a week? I can't speak for them directly, but I would bet successful sex workers are putting in at least that much if not more time than that per week to ensure their business is successful. In fact I would guess (and I'd love to hear from a professional) that they prob burning the candle if they expect to build their business. Such a weird perspective to have. What is it that makes sex work not work relative to other kinds of creative/ performance based 'work'? I mean, even a greeter at walmart is putting on a kind of show, at a fundamental level, whats the difference? Is it not enough effort in your perspective? Not enough time per unit effort? Is it that they get paid to much? Too little? In your perspective, what qualifies as 'real' work? Is a lecture at a university 'real' work (trading your time and a perspective, only communicated; nothing materially trades hands) not real work? Is a laborer putting up concrete block not real work (trading their body and their time for money)? Is marketing not real work (you don't create anything)? Is management not real work (you don't explicitly 'make' anything? Even just in asking the question, it makes me consider that you may have a poor definition of what 'work' is if you don't consider modern sex work as 'work'. I'm interested to hear how you define work.
- Klwohu 5y ago
  You were more interested in delivering a canned lecture. I don't have to justify myself to such a rude person. Sex work is NOT real work, that's not just an odd perspective, it's the majority opinion.
  - Alekhine 5y ago
    'Sex work is not real work' 'Elaborate' 'No'
    - Klwohu 5y ago
      My explanation eventually leads back to Marxism and destruction of the family unit and other cornerstones of public order and decency which form the core of Enlightenment Western civilization. This isn't the proper place to critique Marxism. I'm sure everybody feels the chilling effects in their own workplaces and on the Internet, as well. Some things are just not fit to talk about outside certain welcoming spaces, like 4chan.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > My explanation eventually leads back to Marxism and destruction of the family unit and other cornerstones of public order and decency which form the core of Enlightenment Western civilization As Marx himself pointed out, it is capitalism which, by reducing the working class which composes the greatest part of society to consumables in the system of production, destroys the family unit and other cornerstones of public order and decency of the society in which the Enlightenment emerged, and the capitalist habit of blaming opponents of capitalism for that is a diversionary tactic.
        Klwohu 5y ago
        Capitalism is entirely a concept within Marxism and doesn't exist outside that particular philosophy. Maybe that's why Marxists have reached total penetration and are having difficulty converting new useful idiots. Most people wised up to the re-definition of language and the predominance of neologisms and tuned it all out.
        dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Capitalism is entirely a concept within Marxism and doesn’t exist outside that particular philosophy. The conversion of the means of production from appurtenances to land that was usually held as entailments to independent marketably property held in fee simple (along with land itself being converted from entailments to fee simple ownership) driven by pressure from and to the benefit of the burgeoning mercantile class is, like, a real thing that happened. The idea that capitalism exists only as a concept within Marxism is novel, but not even popular among anti-Marxists. > Maybe that’s why Marxists have reached total penetration and are having difficulty converting new useful idiots. Marxism was a reaction to the particular situation in the dominant economies of the West in the late 19th Century, and played a powerful role in shaping the reform of those economies that occurred in the early-mid-20th Century and essentially completely replaced the system that Marxism reacted to. While the dominant system of the developed world is still sometimes called “capitalism” (though others distinguish it as “welfare statism”, “the modern mixed economy” and shares some key characteristics of the earlier system, it is also radically different. Marxism is part of the background of a lot of modern movements most of whose members wouldn’t describe themselves as Marxist because they are working from a different point and responding to different problems. > Most people wised up to the re-definition of language and the predominance of neologisms and tuned it all out. Yeah, I don’t think “re-definition of language and […] neologisms” have ever been a particular problem for Marxists; all systems which give importance to distinctions that have not otherwise been considered import either create new language or use existing language in special ways, and many of them are quite successful.
cush 5y ago
It sounds like you have completely dismissed the concept without spending a moment looking into what it means.
- Klwohu 5y ago
  Wrong, it's the result of continuous study. Call me a Nazi but please don't assign me bigotry.
  - herbst 5y ago
    How does that make you an Nazi?
  - cush 5y ago
    Who said Nazi...? Not bigotry, ignorance. But you really just proved my point... Oh you're continuously studying sex work? Please link us to some of your publications then.

by Klwohu 5y ago

RosanaAnaDana 5y ago

>sex work is NOT real work What a weird perspective. Do you consider performance music or performance artists to also not do real work? Do you think that successful internet sex workers are putting in less than 40 hours a week? I can't speak for them directly, but I would bet successful sex workers are putting in at least that much if not more time than that per week to ensure their business is successful. In fact I would guess (and I'd love to hear from a professional) that they prob burning the candle if they expect to build their business. Such a weird perspective to have. What is it that makes sex work not work relative to other kinds of creative/ performance based 'work'? I mean, even a greeter at walmart is putting on a kind of show, at a fundamental level, whats the difference? Is it not enough effort in your perspective? Not enough time per unit effort? Is it that they get paid to much? Too little? In your perspective, what qualifies as 'real' work? Is a lecture at a university 'real' work (trading your time and a perspective, only communicated; nothing materially trades hands) not real work? Is a laborer putting up concrete block not real work (trading their body and their time for money)? Is marketing not real work (you don't create anything)? Is management not real work (you don't explicitly 'make' anything? Even just in asking the question, it makes me consider that you may have a poor definition of what 'work' is if you don't consider modern sex work as 'work'. I'm interested to hear how you define work.

Klwohu 5y ago
You were more interested in delivering a canned lecture. I don't have to justify myself to such a rude person. Sex work is NOT real work, that's not just an odd perspective, it's the majority opinion.
- Alekhine 5y ago
  'Sex work is not real work' 'Elaborate' 'No'
  - Klwohu 5y ago
    My explanation eventually leads back to Marxism and destruction of the family unit and other cornerstones of public order and decency which form the core of Enlightenment Western civilization. This isn't the proper place to critique Marxism. I'm sure everybody feels the chilling effects in their own workplaces and on the Internet, as well. Some things are just not fit to talk about outside certain welcoming spaces, like 4chan.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > My explanation eventually leads back to Marxism and destruction of the family unit and other cornerstones of public order and decency which form the core of Enlightenment Western civilization As Marx himself pointed out, it is capitalism which, by reducing the working class which composes the greatest part of society to consumables in the system of production, destroys the family unit and other cornerstones of public order and decency of the society in which the Enlightenment emerged, and the capitalist habit of blaming opponents of capitalism for that is a diversionary tactic.
      - Klwohu 5y ago
        Capitalism is entirely a concept within Marxism and doesn't exist outside that particular philosophy. Maybe that's why Marxists have reached total penetration and are having difficulty converting new useful idiots. Most people wised up to the re-definition of language and the predominance of neologisms and tuned it all out.
        dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Capitalism is entirely a concept within Marxism and doesn’t exist outside that particular philosophy. The conversion of the means of production from appurtenances to land that was usually held as entailments to independent marketably property held in fee simple (along with land itself being converted from entailments to fee simple ownership) driven by pressure from and to the benefit of the burgeoning mercantile class is, like, a real thing that happened. The idea that capitalism exists only as a concept within Marxism is novel, but not even popular among anti-Marxists. > Maybe that’s why Marxists have reached total penetration and are having difficulty converting new useful idiots. Marxism was a reaction to the particular situation in the dominant economies of the West in the late 19th Century, and played a powerful role in shaping the reform of those economies that occurred in the early-mid-20th Century and essentially completely replaced the system that Marxism reacted to. While the dominant system of the developed world is still sometimes called “capitalism” (though others distinguish it as “welfare statism”, “the modern mixed economy” and shares some key characteristics of the earlier system, it is also radically different. Marxism is part of the background of a lot of modern movements most of whose members wouldn’t describe themselves as Marxist because they are working from a different point and responding to different problems. > Most people wised up to the re-definition of language and the predominance of neologisms and tuned it all out. Yeah, I don’t think “re-definition of language and […] neologisms” have ever been a particular problem for Marxists; all systems which give importance to distinctions that have not otherwise been considered import either create new language or use existing language in special ways, and many of them are quite successful.

cush 5y ago

It sounds like you have completely dismissed the concept without spending a moment looking into what it means.

Klwohu 5y ago
Wrong, it's the result of continuous study. Call me a Nazi but please don't assign me bigotry.
- herbst 5y ago
  How does that make you an Nazi?
- cush 5y ago
  Who said Nazi...? Not bigotry, ignorance. But you really just proved my point... Oh you're continuously studying sex work? Please link us to some of your publications then.