4 ms·

Most likely google will just turn off that silly opt out functionality. It's not like anyone's going to stop using their spyware browser.

feanaro 5y ago
I'd like to see them try that and see how that flies.
karaterobot 5y ago
I wonder whether, if WP takes the stance that FLoC is a security risk, whether they'd also consider a version of Chrome that doesn't allow opting out of it a security risk as well. And, if not, why not?
Silhouette 5y ago
Surely that depends on what their experience using it is, just like every other "winning" browser before that is no longer winning? If FLoC generates so much hostility within the web dev community that a few major sites/platforms start actively blocking it, and if Google responds by ignoring the opt-outs in Chrome, and if the community responds with a SOPA-like "no access using Chrome for the next 48 hours then, here are some other fine browsers you can use instead that don't invade your privacy in this way", Google will simply be outgunned. However, you probably need platforms on the scale of WP and/or some sites with huge audiences like Facebook/Wikipedia/Netflix/Reddit to be on board for the effect to be fast and powerful enough to make a difference.
- markovbot 5y ago
  >and if the community responds with a SOPA-like "no access using Chrome for the next 48 hours then, here are some other fine browsers you can use instead that don't invade your privacy in this way" that seems unlikely.
  - Silhouette 5y ago
    Is it, though? It appears that Google is trying to rewrite the rules of how browsers and the Web work, with the appearance of being on the side of privacy, but actually introducing an alternative method of surveillance that is going to be less favourable to almost everyone except Google. How many of the huge-audience sites are potentially going to lose out from that, not least because they rely on advertising themselves for the lion's share of their revenues? This whole discussion started with a proposal from a platform that is supporting nearly half of the sites people are visiting. That puts WP in a unique and potentially very powerful position here as well, and evidently they're interested in trying to force the issue. And finally, the SOPA experience has shown that it is not entirely implausible for large numbers of sites to collaborate in this way if they feel the threat is serious enough. So if FLoC is as bad as the critics are suggesting, it doesn't seem entirely out of the question. There seem to be quite a few powerful organisations that would have a variety of motivations for wanting to give Google a bloody nose over this one.
tomjen3 5y ago
Chrome is entranched, but not like IE was. You have to install the browser in the first place, which means the moment it starts to be too crappy people move elsewhere. Why do you think Google hasn't prevented adblockers from running on it? If they did so, it would sink the browser so quickly.
- dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
  > the moment it starts to be too crappy people move elsewhere You seriously underestimate the power of inertia.
- JoshTriplett 5y ago
  One of the ways Chrome got as popular as it did was to bundle installation of it with various other programs, the way spyware and adware did. You install a random program, you don't open "advanced install" and uncheck "Chrome", and you end up with Chrome installed.

feanaro 5y ago

I'd like to see them try that and see how that flies.

karaterobot 5y ago

I wonder whether, if WP takes the stance that FLoC is a security risk, whether they'd also consider a version of Chrome that doesn't allow opting out of it a security risk as well. And, if not, why not?

Silhouette 5y ago

Surely that depends on what their experience using it is, just like every other "winning" browser before that is no longer winning? If FLoC generates so much hostility within the web dev community that a few major sites/platforms start actively blocking it, and if Google responds by ignoring the opt-outs in Chrome, and if the community responds with a SOPA-like "no access using Chrome for the next 48 hours then, here are some other fine browsers you can use instead that don't invade your privacy in this way", Google will simply be outgunned. However, you probably need platforms on the scale of WP and/or some sites with huge audiences like Facebook/Wikipedia/Netflix/Reddit to be on board for the effect to be fast and powerful enough to make a difference.

markovbot 5y ago
>and if the community responds with a SOPA-like "no access using Chrome for the next 48 hours then, here are some other fine browsers you can use instead that don't invade your privacy in this way" that seems unlikely.
- Silhouette 5y ago
  Is it, though? It appears that Google is trying to rewrite the rules of how browsers and the Web work, with the appearance of being on the side of privacy, but actually introducing an alternative method of surveillance that is going to be less favourable to almost everyone except Google. How many of the huge-audience sites are potentially going to lose out from that, not least because they rely on advertising themselves for the lion's share of their revenues? This whole discussion started with a proposal from a platform that is supporting nearly half of the sites people are visiting. That puts WP in a unique and potentially very powerful position here as well, and evidently they're interested in trying to force the issue. And finally, the SOPA experience has shown that it is not entirely implausible for large numbers of sites to collaborate in this way if they feel the threat is serious enough. So if FLoC is as bad as the critics are suggesting, it doesn't seem entirely out of the question. There seem to be quite a few powerful organisations that would have a variety of motivations for wanting to give Google a bloody nose over this one.

tomjen3 5y ago

Chrome is entranched, but not like IE was. You have to install the browser in the first place, which means the moment it starts to be too crappy people move elsewhere. Why do you think Google hasn't prevented adblockers from running on it? If they did so, it would sink the browser so quickly.

dvfjsdhgfv 5y ago
> the moment it starts to be too crappy people move elsewhere You seriously underestimate the power of inertia.
JoshTriplett 5y ago
One of the ways Chrome got as popular as it did was to bundle installation of it with various other programs, the way spyware and adware did. You install a random program, you don't open "advanced install" and uncheck "Chrome", and you end up with Chrome installed.