4 ms·

He continues to do intolerant stuff: https://rms-open-letter.github.io/appendix https://rms-open-letter.github.io/appendix

visarga 6y ago
is this the "we don't tolerate intolerance" logic?
tryonenow 6y ago
The only intolerance here is on behalf of a viciously ableist movement which does not allow for purely rational opinions from someone clearly on the autistic spectrum. Making women "uncomfortable" without making or implying advances is purely intolerant of those who fall slightly outside of social norms; I haven't seen any evidence that he actually did or said anything predatory or sexual. It's the same implicit social shaming that socially awkward "nerds" and "geeks" receive in highschool, except turned up to 11 because of a vicious social movement which explicitly targets outliers. The open source community was far more tolerant when it was merit based and race/gender blind, before it was infested with ideologues and the social contagion that is the social [in]justice movement. Frankly, normies are ruining programming communities by demanding that the culture change to be inclusive of their norms, to the detriment of the very people who founded the movement. It's painfully ironic, and the people leading this charge are simply grabbing at power justified by self righteousness.
toomim 6y ago
You sound very intolerant of said "intolerance".
- krastanov 6y ago
  I am not certain whether you are making a very erudite joke or trolling, but either way, the "Paradox of Intolerance" might an interesting read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance Being "intolerant to intolerance" is a fairly well accepted idea in societies that value personal freedoms.
  - hglp 6y ago
    Popper would have been disgusted by the treatment of RMS and cancel culture in general. He'd also have been disgusted by being used in a propagandistic manner.
  - blp100 6y ago
    Popper is abused by the woke. No one who actually read philosophy believes that Popper is in any way an apologist for the woke movement.
  - toomim 6y ago
    I'm aware of the paradox, and it's a wonderful idea! It still looks to me that in this case, it's the people calling RMS intolerant that are the intolerant ones. On the contrary, I think RMS actually tolerates a whole lot. He clearly has different views than others on a variety of topics, yet he doesn't let it affect his technical decisions. He's been attacked viciously in the media, but he's tolerated it and is coming back to the FSF. An intolerant person would disappear. Consider all the people on the board of the FSF with opposite political views than his, that he tolerates on a day-to-day basis. An "intolerant homophobe/transphobe" would not tolerate having homosexuals/transexuals on the board, for instance.
    - krastanov 6y ago
      Ah, yes, I am mostly on board with the specifics of what you said in this message, even if I disagree with some of the generalizations. The original one lacked too much context for me to understand it.
gerhardhaering 6y ago
I fail to see how any of this is intolerant, or transphobic. You might not like these opinions. Or disagree that there is good reasoning behind some of this. This does not make the one you are disagreeing with intolerant.
- zajio1am 6y ago
  > I fail to see how any of this is intolerant, or transphobic. Yes. RMS argued for gender-neutral pronouns since more than twenty years ago. Just because it is a different set of neutral pronouns than is popular today, some people mark him transphobic. That is absurd.
  - fsf4lyfe 6y ago
    Indeed, and it's no surprise that this attempted cancellation of RMS is being pushed by the pronoun enthusiast crowd. These tend to be the type of people who simply can't stand any dissenting opinions to their dogma. Unfortunately, the more tolerant attitude of just agreeing to disagree seems to have gone out of fashion. Now the preferred option is to destroy a person's entire career and slander their reputation with deliberate misinterpretations of what they've said and done.
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      It’s not slander if it’s true, and you can be disgusted with RMS without bringing politics into it. He’s bad for the free software movement. It’s as simple as that.
- zamalek 6y ago
  If there wasn't a wide spectrum of opinions on this then you'd be objectively correct. As it stands, the zeitgeist is undecided.
refenestrator 6y ago
It's really funny that these people are incorporating pro-life arguments now. Cultural horseshoe theory.

visarga 6y ago

is this the "we don't tolerate intolerance" logic?

tryonenow 6y ago

The only intolerance here is on behalf of a viciously ableist movement which does not allow for purely rational opinions from someone clearly on the autistic spectrum. Making women "uncomfortable" without making or implying advances is purely intolerant of those who fall slightly outside of social norms; I haven't seen any evidence that he actually did or said anything predatory or sexual. It's the same implicit social shaming that socially awkward "nerds" and "geeks" receive in highschool, except turned up to 11 because of a vicious social movement which explicitly targets outliers. The open source community was far more tolerant when it was merit based and race/gender blind, before it was infested with ideologues and the social contagion that is the social [in]justice movement. Frankly, normies are ruining programming communities by demanding that the culture change to be inclusive of their norms, to the detriment of the very people who founded the movement. It's painfully ironic, and the people leading this charge are simply grabbing at power justified by self righteousness.

toomim 6y ago

You sound very intolerant of said "intolerance".

krastanov 6y ago
I am not certain whether you are making a very erudite joke or trolling, but either way, the "Paradox of Intolerance" might an interesting read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance Being "intolerant to intolerance" is a fairly well accepted idea in societies that value personal freedoms.
- hglp 6y ago
  Popper would have been disgusted by the treatment of RMS and cancel culture in general. He'd also have been disgusted by being used in a propagandistic manner.
- blp100 6y ago
  Popper is abused by the woke. No one who actually read philosophy believes that Popper is in any way an apologist for the woke movement.
- toomim 6y ago
  I'm aware of the paradox, and it's a wonderful idea! It still looks to me that in this case, it's the people calling RMS intolerant that are the intolerant ones. On the contrary, I think RMS actually tolerates a whole lot. He clearly has different views than others on a variety of topics, yet he doesn't let it affect his technical decisions. He's been attacked viciously in the media, but he's tolerated it and is coming back to the FSF. An intolerant person would disappear. Consider all the people on the board of the FSF with opposite political views than his, that he tolerates on a day-to-day basis. An "intolerant homophobe/transphobe" would not tolerate having homosexuals/transexuals on the board, for instance.
  - krastanov 6y ago
    Ah, yes, I am mostly on board with the specifics of what you said in this message, even if I disagree with some of the generalizations. The original one lacked too much context for me to understand it.

gerhardhaering 6y ago

I fail to see how any of this is intolerant, or transphobic. You might not like these opinions. Or disagree that there is good reasoning behind some of this. This does not make the one you are disagreeing with intolerant.

zajio1am 6y ago
> I fail to see how any of this is intolerant, or transphobic. Yes. RMS argued for gender-neutral pronouns since more than twenty years ago. Just because it is a different set of neutral pronouns than is popular today, some people mark him transphobic. That is absurd.
- fsf4lyfe 6y ago
  Indeed, and it's no surprise that this attempted cancellation of RMS is being pushed by the pronoun enthusiast crowd. These tend to be the type of people who simply can't stand any dissenting opinions to their dogma. Unfortunately, the more tolerant attitude of just agreeing to disagree seems to have gone out of fashion. Now the preferred option is to destroy a person's entire career and slander their reputation with deliberate misinterpretations of what they've said and done.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    It’s not slander if it’s true, and you can be disgusted with RMS without bringing politics into it. He’s bad for the free software movement. It’s as simple as that.
zamalek 6y ago
If there wasn't a wide spectrum of opinions on this then you'd be objectively correct. As it stands, the zeitgeist is undecided.

refenestrator 6y ago

It's really funny that these people are incorporating pro-life arguments now. Cultural horseshoe theory.