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I found this notable as well: > Authorities said they used 32,000 gallons of water over four hours to extinguish the flames because the vehicle’s batteries kep

I found this notable as well: > Authorities said they used 32,000 gallons of water over four hours to extinguish the flames because the vehicle’s batteries kept reigniting. At one point, Herman said, deputies had to call Tesla to ask them how to put out the fire in the battery.

fallingknife 6y ago
Some "authorities" they are. Took me about 5 seconds to find the answer. Not one person thought to Google it?
- robin_reala 6y ago
  Maybe in a situation like that, going by the first search engine result isn’t the best idea?
  - mikestew 6y ago
    I would expect professionals to have this information in cache. I’ve been driving a production BEV for ten years, this isn’t exactly new-fangled.
  - fallingknife 6y ago
    Better than going with the first result out of your head (pour water on it) which is what they did.
    - camjohnson26 6y ago
      Which turns out to be the right answer.
- jvolkman 6y ago
  The first result for my query says "copious amounts of water are recommended as the best means to extinguish a high voltage vehicle fire." What did you find?
  - fallingknife 6y ago
    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=how+to+extinguish+a+lithium+battery+fire https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=how+to+...
    - jvolkman 6y ago
      I'm guessing those strategies work well for phones but maybe not cars which are absolutely enormous amounts of battery and possibly wrapped around a tree at the time of the fire. Here's what FEMA has to say (https://www.usfa.fema.gov/training/coffee_break/061819.html https://www.usfa.fema.gov/training/coffee_break/061819.html) Secure a large, continuous and sustainable water supply — one or more fire hydrants or multiple water tenders. Use a large volume of water such as master stream, 2 1/2-inch or multiple 1 3/4-inch fire lines to suppress and cool the fire and the battery.
      - NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
        Right. A fire extinguisher is a "first aid" response to a fire. The kind of advice that's relevant to fire extinguisher usage is predicated on a small fire; general advice is that any fire larger than a small trash can is too big to fight with an extinguisher. The fire department plays from a different rule book.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  So it seems pretty possible that they followed the standard procedure and it didn't work?
  - fallingknife 6y ago
    A lithium battery fire is considered a class B fire, so pouring water on it is not standard procedure. They should have known that in the first place, but if they had googled it, they would have found out very quickly anyway.
    - maxerickson 6y ago
      Tesla recommends spraying the battery with copious amounts of water. Read all about it: https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders Lithium-ion is different than lithium… (my other comment is a question because I haven't seen any information about what procedures they did follow)
      - fallingknife 6y ago
        My point it is 1. firefighters should know this already 2. if they didn't they could have googled it like you just did instead of having to wait around to get in touch with someone from Tesla
        maxerickson 6y ago
        Yes, my point is that a possible explanation for using 32,000 gallons and calling Tesla is that spraying 3,000 gallons on the battery did not successfully extinguish it.
        tzs 6y ago
        What you are overlooking is that the correct procedure as documented by Tesla, which is what the firefighters had been doing for four hours, did not stop the fire.
        exporectomy 6y ago
Erik816 6y ago
Fire departments are going to need to learn how to put out battery fires and have the relevant equipment available. If they are in the profession of putting out fires, at some point it's on them to know how to not waste 32,000 gallons of water as these vehicles become more common.
- JKCalhoun 6y ago
  How do you put them out?
  - thatguy0900 6y ago
    From their own Manuel: FIREFIGHTING USE WATER TO FIGHT A HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY FIRE. If the battery catches fire, is exposed to high heat, or is generating heat or gases, use large amounts of water to cool the battery. It can take approximately 3,000 gallons (11,356 liters) of water, applied directly to the battery, to fully extinguish and cool down a battery fire; always establish or request an additional water supply. If water is not immediately available, use dry chemicals, CO2, foam, or another typical fire-extinguishing agent to fight the fire until water is available. Apply water directly to the battery. If safety permits, lift or tilt the vehicle for more direct access to the battery. Apply water inside the battery ONLY if a natural opening (such as a vent or opening from a collision) already exists. Do not open the battery for the purpose of cooling it. Extinguish small fires that do not involve the high voltage battery using typical vehicle firefighting procedures. During overhaul, do not make contact with any high voltage components. Always use insulated tools for overhaul. Heat and flames can compromise airbag inflators, stored gas inflation cylinders, gas struts, and other components which can result in an unexpected explosion. Perform an adequate knock down before entering a hot zone. Battery fires can take up to 24 hours to extinguish. Consider allowing the battery to burn while protecting exposures. After all fire and smoke has visibly subsided, a thermal imaging camera can be used to actively measure the temperature of the high voltage battery and monitor the trend of heating or cooling. There must not be fire, smoke, or heating present in the high voltage battery for at least one hour before the vehicle can be released to second responders (such as law enforcement, vehicle transporters, etc.). The battery must be completely cooled before releasing the vehicle to second responders or otherwise leaving the incident. Always advise second responders that there is a risk of battery re-ignition. Second responders may choose to drain excess water out of the vehicle by tilting or repositioning it. This operation can assist in mitigating possible re-ignition. Due to potential re-ignition, a Model S that has been involved in a submersion, fire, or a collision that has compromised the high voltage battery should be stored in an open area at least 50 ft (15 m) from any exposure. Warning: When fire is involved, consider the entire vehicle energized. Always wear full PPE, including a SCBA.

fallingknife 6y ago

Some "authorities" they are. Took me about 5 seconds to find the answer. Not one person thought to Google it?

robin_reala 6y ago
Maybe in a situation like that, going by the first search engine result isn’t the best idea?
- mikestew 6y ago
  I would expect professionals to have this information in cache. I’ve been driving a production BEV for ten years, this isn’t exactly new-fangled.
- fallingknife 6y ago
  Better than going with the first result out of your head (pour water on it) which is what they did.
  - camjohnson26 6y ago
    Which turns out to be the right answer.
jvolkman 6y ago
The first result for my query says "copious amounts of water are recommended as the best means to extinguish a high voltage vehicle fire." What did you find?
- fallingknife 6y ago
  https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=how+to+extinguish+a+lithium+battery+fire https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=how+to+...
  - jvolkman 6y ago
    I'm guessing those strategies work well for phones but maybe not cars which are absolutely enormous amounts of battery and possibly wrapped around a tree at the time of the fire. Here's what FEMA has to say (https://www.usfa.fema.gov/training/coffee_break/061819.html https://www.usfa.fema.gov/training/coffee_break/061819.html) Secure a large, continuous and sustainable water supply — one or more fire hydrants or multiple water tenders. Use a large volume of water such as master stream, 2 1/2-inch or multiple 1 3/4-inch fire lines to suppress and cool the fire and the battery.
    - NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
      Right. A fire extinguisher is a "first aid" response to a fire. The kind of advice that's relevant to fire extinguisher usage is predicated on a small fire; general advice is that any fire larger than a small trash can is too big to fight with an extinguisher. The fire department plays from a different rule book.
maxerickson 6y ago
So it seems pretty possible that they followed the standard procedure and it didn't work?
- fallingknife 6y ago
  A lithium battery fire is considered a class B fire, so pouring water on it is not standard procedure. They should have known that in the first place, but if they had googled it, they would have found out very quickly anyway.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    Tesla recommends spraying the battery with copious amounts of water. Read all about it: https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders https://www.tesla.com/firstresponders Lithium-ion is different than lithium… (my other comment is a question because I haven't seen any information about what procedures they did follow)
    - fallingknife 6y ago
      My point it is 1. firefighters should know this already 2. if they didn't they could have googled it like you just did instead of having to wait around to get in touch with someone from Tesla
      - maxerickson 6y ago
        Yes, my point is that a possible explanation for using 32,000 gallons and calling Tesla is that spraying 3,000 gallons on the battery did not successfully extinguish it.
      - tzs 6y ago
        What you are overlooking is that the correct procedure as documented by Tesla, which is what the firefighters had been doing for four hours, did not stop the fire.
      - exporectomy 6y ago

Erik816 6y ago

Fire departments are going to need to learn how to put out battery fires and have the relevant equipment available. If they are in the profession of putting out fires, at some point it's on them to know how to not waste 32,000 gallons of water as these vehicles become more common.

JKCalhoun 6y ago
How do you put them out?
- thatguy0900 6y ago
  From their own Manuel: FIREFIGHTING USE WATER TO FIGHT A HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY FIRE. If the battery catches fire, is exposed to high heat, or is generating heat or gases, use large amounts of water to cool the battery. It can take approximately 3,000 gallons (11,356 liters) of water, applied directly to the battery, to fully extinguish and cool down a battery fire; always establish or request an additional water supply. If water is not immediately available, use dry chemicals, CO2, foam, or another typical fire-extinguishing agent to fight the fire until water is available. Apply water directly to the battery. If safety permits, lift or tilt the vehicle for more direct access to the battery. Apply water inside the battery ONLY if a natural opening (such as a vent or opening from a collision) already exists. Do not open the battery for the purpose of cooling it. Extinguish small fires that do not involve the high voltage battery using typical vehicle firefighting procedures. During overhaul, do not make contact with any high voltage components. Always use insulated tools for overhaul. Heat and flames can compromise airbag inflators, stored gas inflation cylinders, gas struts, and other components which can result in an unexpected explosion. Perform an adequate knock down before entering a hot zone. Battery fires can take up to 24 hours to extinguish. Consider allowing the battery to burn while protecting exposures. After all fire and smoke has visibly subsided, a thermal imaging camera can be used to actively measure the temperature of the high voltage battery and monitor the trend of heating or cooling. There must not be fire, smoke, or heating present in the high voltage battery for at least one hour before the vehicle can be released to second responders (such as law enforcement, vehicle transporters, etc.). The battery must be completely cooled before releasing the vehicle to second responders or otherwise leaving the incident. Always advise second responders that there is a risk of battery re-ignition. Second responders may choose to drain excess water out of the vehicle by tilting or repositioning it. This operation can assist in mitigating possible re-ignition. Due to potential re-ignition, a Model S that has been involved in a submersion, fire, or a collision that has compromised the high voltage battery should be stored in an open area at least 50 ft (15 m) from any exposure. Warning: When fire is involved, consider the entire vehicle energized. Always wear full PPE, including a SCBA.