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Because credit card rewards aren’t free? Banks compete for credit card consumers by offering rewards. Those rewards cost them money. Selling consumer informatio

Because credit card rewards aren’t free? Banks compete for credit card consumers by offering rewards. Those rewards cost them money. Selling consumer information is another revenue stream to make up for the cost of rewards. Most consumers are okay with this trade off: they get their airline miles / low interest / cash back in exchange for their purchase history.

ancarda 5y ago
>Because credit card rewards aren’t free So this isn't covered by the 1-3% transaction fee the merchant pays every time you use your card? >Most consumers are okay with this trade off No they aren't. Most consumers aren't even aware they are paying with their privacy, so you cannot take a low opt-out rate to mean high levels of consent.
- matthewdgreen 5y ago
  It doesn’t matter if credit card providers are paid 0%, 3% or 5% on each transaction. If the law (and/or customer blowback) allows a company to sell customer information, management will eventually give in to selling it because it’s a revenue source. When called on this they will give you a story about how it “lowers customer costs” and some people will accept this as a valid excuse, but none of this changes the reality. PS: this is really a response to grandparent poster, not parent.
- 29083011397778 5y ago
  Speaking with coworkers that aren't tech workers - nobody gives a damn. Not one, not even something resembling one. To them, they are getting paid for something they otherwise have no use for. They're aware everything is tracked about them, and they do not give a fuck. Your friends, family, and coworkers might though, so the critical mass of people not okay with this can still grow :)
gambiting 5y ago
Credit cards are such an American thing though. Here in UK pretty much everyone uses debit cards with no rewards. I actually have a credit card just for emergencies but it offers no rewards either.
- gumby 5y ago
  In order to bootstrap adoption of CCs, the banks pushed for a law in the 60s that put all the fraud liability on the banks, not the card users (and, to a lesser extent, not on the merchants). Your CC purchases are quite protected and it's easy to dispute a charge (apparently a very big deal in the phone and online sex businesses). As debit cards became popular here (well after Europe) the banks push them hard on people who aren't excellent credit risks (good credit risks = profit), because they push essentially all the risk onto the account holder and absolve the banks of any responsibility. I have three CCs (one of each major network) and pay them off every month; it's like having three debit cards except I get a free loan of a month's worth of spending. The term used in the banking business for people like me is "deadbeat"
  - gambiting 5y ago
    So here's the thing - I don't understand the liability thing. At least here in the UK I have disputed transactions on my debit card several times and every single time the charges were reversed during the phone call, I had the money back instantly. Is that only available for credit cards in the US?
    - gumby 5y ago
      That is correct.
      - gpanders 5y ago
        Citation needed. I use credit cards exclusively so I cannot say for sure, but I am extremely skeptical that banks don’t offer any fraud protection on debit cards in the US. AFAIK the main reason people prefer CC’s over debit cards for fraud prevention is simply that with a debit card your money comes out immediately if it is used by someone else, whereas with a CC there is a 30-day buffer.
        gumby 5y ago
        Literally the first links when I search for ‘fraud protection credit card debit card” are below. The TL;DR is: - you have a short window to report DC fraud before you bear the full risk; CC risk is capped - dispute a CC charge: you don’t owe anything / accrue interest until resolved; DC case you don’t get any money back until bank decides it’s not your fault. Tough luck if you needed that money to pay your rent. https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0213-lost-or-stolen-credit-atm-and-debit-cards https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0213-lost-or-stolen-cr... https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/are-credit-cards-safer-than-debit-cards/ https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/are-credit-cards... https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/credit-cards/credit-card-vs-debit-card-safer-online-purchases https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/credit-cards/credit-card-... https://creditcards.usnews.com/articles/why-credit-cards-are-safer-than-debit-cards https://creditcards.usnews.com/articles/why-credit-cards-are... https://komonews.com/sponsored/wafd/financial-focus-tips/credit-cards-have-better-fraud-protection-than-debit-cards https://komonews.com/sponsored/wafd/financial-focus-tips/cre...

ancarda 5y ago

>Because credit card rewards aren’t free So this isn't covered by the 1-3% transaction fee the merchant pays every time you use your card? >Most consumers are okay with this trade off No they aren't. Most consumers aren't even aware they are paying with their privacy, so you cannot take a low opt-out rate to mean high levels of consent.

matthewdgreen 5y ago
It doesn’t matter if credit card providers are paid 0%, 3% or 5% on each transaction. If the law (and/or customer blowback) allows a company to sell customer information, management will eventually give in to selling it because it’s a revenue source. When called on this they will give you a story about how it “lowers customer costs” and some people will accept this as a valid excuse, but none of this changes the reality. PS: this is really a response to grandparent poster, not parent.
29083011397778 5y ago
Speaking with coworkers that aren't tech workers - nobody gives a damn. Not one, not even something resembling one. To them, they are getting paid for something they otherwise have no use for. They're aware everything is tracked about them, and they do not give a fuck. Your friends, family, and coworkers might though, so the critical mass of people not okay with this can still grow :)

gambiting 5y ago

Credit cards are such an American thing though. Here in UK pretty much everyone uses debit cards with no rewards. I actually have a credit card just for emergencies but it offers no rewards either.

gumby 5y ago
In order to bootstrap adoption of CCs, the banks pushed for a law in the 60s that put all the fraud liability on the banks, not the card users (and, to a lesser extent, not on the merchants). Your CC purchases are quite protected and it's easy to dispute a charge (apparently a very big deal in the phone and online sex businesses). As debit cards became popular here (well after Europe) the banks push them hard on people who aren't excellent credit risks (good credit risks = profit), because they push essentially all the risk onto the account holder and absolve the banks of any responsibility. I have three CCs (one of each major network) and pay them off every month; it's like having three debit cards except I get a free loan of a month's worth of spending. The term used in the banking business for people like me is "deadbeat"
- gambiting 5y ago
  So here's the thing - I don't understand the liability thing. At least here in the UK I have disputed transactions on my debit card several times and every single time the charges were reversed during the phone call, I had the money back instantly. Is that only available for credit cards in the US?
  - gumby 5y ago
    That is correct.
    - gpanders 5y ago
      Citation needed. I use credit cards exclusively so I cannot say for sure, but I am extremely skeptical that banks don’t offer any fraud protection on debit cards in the US. AFAIK the main reason people prefer CC’s over debit cards for fraud prevention is simply that with a debit card your money comes out immediately if it is used by someone else, whereas with a CC there is a 30-day buffer.
      - gumby 5y ago
        Literally the first links when I search for ‘fraud protection credit card debit card” are below. The TL;DR is: - you have a short window to report DC fraud before you bear the full risk; CC risk is capped - dispute a CC charge: you don’t owe anything / accrue interest until resolved; DC case you don’t get any money back until bank decides it’s not your fault. Tough luck if you needed that money to pay your rent. https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0213-lost-or-stolen-credit-atm-and-debit-cards https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0213-lost-or-stolen-cr... https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/are-credit-cards-safer-than-debit-cards/ https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/are-credit-cards... https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/credit-cards/credit-card-vs-debit-card-safer-online-purchases https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/credit-cards/credit-card-... https://creditcards.usnews.com/articles/why-credit-cards-are-safer-than-debit-cards https://creditcards.usnews.com/articles/why-credit-cards-are... https://komonews.com/sponsored/wafd/financial-focus-tips/credit-cards-have-better-fraud-protection-than-debit-cards https://komonews.com/sponsored/wafd/financial-focus-tips/cre...