7 ms·

What a pleasant surprise, there are people still debugging code from 1990.

TonyTrapp 5y ago
I occasionally reverse-engineer code from that era for fun and it's still very manageable. Imagine what it will be like reverse-engineering our current code in 30 years. Everything is just so much more complex.
- stevekemp 5y ago
  I spent today patching a binary which was compiled in the 80s - an infocom interpreter of all things - so that I could play hitchhikers's guide to the galaxy on a single-board computer. So yes, people will probably keep doing things like this long after you think programs are obsolete.
jka 5y ago
Your comment makes me wonder what the largest elapsed time duration has been so far between the previous release of a popular software project and a confirmed, accepted bugfix. (naturally it'd be easier to determine that for free/open source projects, although only a subset of the overall space) Edit: add the word 'popular', to potentially make the answer more widely-accessible by filtering out tiny/niche projects
- jka 5y ago
  Self-reply: perhaps an easier way to express this question would be: "What is the most reliable popular software product in use today, determined by the absence of reported bugs?"
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- petemir 5y ago
  Probably just one example: Mozilla fixed a 14-year-old bug in Firefox https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10274245 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10274245
  - jka 5y ago
    Impressive - tagged for mozilla 0.91 in the bugtracker twenty (!) years ago. I didn't express the criteria I had in mind very clearly; I'd been wondering about longest elapsed time without any other bugreports occurring (ruling out Mozilla, and probably many other large codebases). Essentially trying to determine ways to find the best-known examples of stable and reliable widely-used software.
    - bombcar 5y ago
      TeX and METAFont just had bug fix releases after 7 years or something.
      - jka 5y ago
        Thanks - good examples. That also led me to https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/boss.html https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/boss.html which is a unique curiosity. Do you know if that was a 7-year duration from previous release to bug discovery, or a 7-year duration between releases?
        bombcar 5y ago
        It’s the latter (and not sure if it is 7 years) - but Knuth only looks at big reports periodically (and he has people who scrub them for him) and has declared that upon his death any remaining bugs are features and the code will cease changing. The bugs are super obscure edge cases now - I suppose if someone found an extremely severe bug Knuth would release earlier than the next planned interval. http://www.tug.org/TUGboat/tb42-1/tb130knuth-tuneup21.pdf http://www.tug.org/TUGboat/tb42-1/tb130knuth-tuneup21.pdf has further details. It’s from a different time where programs could be considered to have a “final form” and be completed. True software engineering.
- imglorp 5y ago
  Jon Bentley's Programming Pearls had a latent bug in its binary search program for 20 years. This is so humbling. Not only did the master miss this, despite proving it correct, but also the Java and C++ library authors. https://ai.googleblog.com/2006/06/extra-extra-read-all-about-it-nearly.html https://ai.googleblog.com/2006/06/extra-extra-read-all-about...
  - ant6n 5y ago
    That website is borked, half the content is off screen on mobile.
    - high_priest 5y ago
      What in the world means "borked"? Is it some kind of hybrid of "botched" and "broken"?
      - owyn 5y ago
        Ha yes, exactly. There are a few different meanings based on context. But it's primarily just one of those fun sounding nonsense words that I also like to say. Not sure where I picked it up from. It is usable in any sentence as a drop in like a G-rated "fucked". There's the nonsensical swedish chef muppet catch phrase "bork bork bork", but he usually says that before everything goes wrong. There was also a judge named "Bork" who was "borked" when his nomination to the supreme court was blocked. I feel like "borked" is probably of a vintage like "fubared" which is a WW2 thing.
- kencausey 5y ago
  Funny. I just watched this video from 8-Bit Show and Tell last night: https://youtu.be/dG_oZV6s0Zg https://youtu.be/dG_oZV6s0Zg . This bug appears to be from 1978. Of course, we have no idea if this time was the first time the bug was discovered.
kpgraham 5y ago
I programmed MASM in the 1990s and found myself deciding exactly where to put the 90H bytes in order to make the code work. It is good to see this stuff.

I occasionally reverse-engineer code from that era for fun and it's still very manageable. Imagine what it will be like reverse-engineering our current code in 30 years. Everything is just so much more complex.

stevekemp 5y ago
I spent today patching a binary which was compiled in the 80s - an infocom interpreter of all things - so that I could play hitchhikers's guide to the galaxy on a single-board computer. So yes, people will probably keep doing things like this long after you think programs are obsolete.

jka 5y ago

Your comment makes me wonder what the largest elapsed time duration has been so far between the previous release of a popular software project and a confirmed, accepted bugfix. (naturally it'd be easier to determine that for free/open source projects, although only a subset of the overall space) Edit: add the word 'popular', to potentially make the answer more widely-accessible by filtering out tiny/niche projects

jka 5y ago
Self-reply: perhaps an easier way to express this question would be: "What is the most reliable popular software product in use today, determined by the absence of reported bugs?"
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
petemir 5y ago
Probably just one example: Mozilla fixed a 14-year-old bug in Firefox https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10274245 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10274245
- jka 5y ago
  Impressive - tagged for mozilla 0.91 in the bugtracker twenty (!) years ago. I didn't express the criteria I had in mind very clearly; I'd been wondering about longest elapsed time without any other bugreports occurring (ruling out Mozilla, and probably many other large codebases). Essentially trying to determine ways to find the best-known examples of stable and reliable widely-used software.
  - bombcar 5y ago
    TeX and METAFont just had bug fix releases after 7 years or something.
    - jka 5y ago
      Thanks - good examples. That also led me to https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/boss.html https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/boss.html which is a unique curiosity. Do you know if that was a 7-year duration from previous release to bug discovery, or a 7-year duration between releases?
      - bombcar 5y ago
        It’s the latter (and not sure if it is 7 years) - but Knuth only looks at big reports periodically (and he has people who scrub them for him) and has declared that upon his death any remaining bugs are features and the code will cease changing. The bugs are super obscure edge cases now - I suppose if someone found an extremely severe bug Knuth would release earlier than the next planned interval. http://www.tug.org/TUGboat/tb42-1/tb130knuth-tuneup21.pdf http://www.tug.org/TUGboat/tb42-1/tb130knuth-tuneup21.pdf has further details. It’s from a different time where programs could be considered to have a “final form” and be completed. True software engineering.
imglorp 5y ago
Jon Bentley's Programming Pearls had a latent bug in its binary search program for 20 years. This is so humbling. Not only did the master miss this, despite proving it correct, but also the Java and C++ library authors. https://ai.googleblog.com/2006/06/extra-extra-read-all-about-it-nearly.html https://ai.googleblog.com/2006/06/extra-extra-read-all-about...
- ant6n 5y ago
  That website is borked, half the content is off screen on mobile.
  - high_priest 5y ago
    What in the world means "borked"? Is it some kind of hybrid of "botched" and "broken"?
    - owyn 5y ago
      Ha yes, exactly. There are a few different meanings based on context. But it's primarily just one of those fun sounding nonsense words that I also like to say. Not sure where I picked it up from. It is usable in any sentence as a drop in like a G-rated "fucked". There's the nonsensical swedish chef muppet catch phrase "bork bork bork", but he usually says that before everything goes wrong. There was also a judge named "Bork" who was "borked" when his nomination to the supreme court was blocked. I feel like "borked" is probably of a vintage like "fubared" which is a WW2 thing.
kencausey 5y ago
Funny. I just watched this video from 8-Bit Show and Tell last night: https://youtu.be/dG_oZV6s0Zg https://youtu.be/dG_oZV6s0Zg . This bug appears to be from 1978. Of course, we have no idea if this time was the first time the bug was discovered.

kpgraham 5y ago

I programmed MASM in the 1990s and found myself deciding exactly where to put the 90H bytes in order to make the code work. It is good to see this stuff.