4 ms·

Hmm, I don't see it like that: if the problem was solved, they actually solved the problem, they just used a human resource to fix it.

eurasiantiger 6y ago
”Used a human resource” is not a very ethical approach.
- libertine 6y ago
  Wow this is a new one... You literally have Human Resources in pretty much all medium/large organizations, that manage literally human resources. Since when human resource is not a very ethical approach? What's the new ethical approach to address human resources?
  - eurasiantiger 6y ago
    Since the publication of Immanuel Kant’s ”Groundwork” in 1785, I believe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundwork_of_the_Metaphysic_of_Morals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundwork_of_the_Metaphysic_o...
pksebben 6y ago
"caused x problem to be solved" is not the same as "solved x problem". the problem management solves is that of identifying needs and diverting resources. it would be unfair to the engineers to say that Elon built a spaceship; we do it anyway, but that doesn't make it accurate or correct.
- libertine 6y ago
  I think that's pretty much just semantics. In the optics of the management there was a problem and was fixed, it could even be a problem that requires several human resources, and/or external contractors, and/or using a product/service, etc. Why can't they claim they've solved the problem? Like, the CTO asking a Product Manager "did you solve the problem", the PM should say: "I didn't, it was the UI X, the Dev Y, and the intern Z"? By your logic no one can claim to have solved problem if several actors were involved, yet the problem is solved. I don't think it would be unfair to say Elon built a space ship, because in a way he did, and unless someone is completely unaware of the endeavor of building something complex like a space ship, it's known that's a company composed of several people with different backgrounds that worked towards the building of a spaceship. If you wanted to be accurate/correct then every time credit was due we should roll movie-like-credits.
  - pksebben 6y ago
    that last statement, I agree with completely. I think it's one of our largest cultural blind spots - we like simple answers so we give credit to the people at the top of the decision making chain. It's why executive salaries and bonuses are so out of control high, and so many low skill or even high skill / not management positions are underpaid. We should be granting credit the way that movies do. For want of a shoe, the horse was lost etc.
    - libertine 6y ago
      I do agree with you on this, that's definitely that status quo and probably influences salaries.

eurasiantiger 6y ago

”Used a human resource” is not a very ethical approach.

libertine 6y ago
Wow this is a new one... You literally have Human Resources in pretty much all medium/large organizations, that manage literally human resources. Since when human resource is not a very ethical approach? What's the new ethical approach to address human resources?
- eurasiantiger 6y ago
  Since the publication of Immanuel Kant’s ”Groundwork” in 1785, I believe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundwork_of_the_Metaphysic_of_Morals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundwork_of_the_Metaphysic_o...

pksebben 6y ago

"caused x problem to be solved" is not the same as "solved x problem". the problem management solves is that of identifying needs and diverting resources. it would be unfair to the engineers to say that Elon built a spaceship; we do it anyway, but that doesn't make it accurate or correct.

libertine 6y ago
I think that's pretty much just semantics. In the optics of the management there was a problem and was fixed, it could even be a problem that requires several human resources, and/or external contractors, and/or using a product/service, etc. Why can't they claim they've solved the problem? Like, the CTO asking a Product Manager "did you solve the problem", the PM should say: "I didn't, it was the UI X, the Dev Y, and the intern Z"? By your logic no one can claim to have solved problem if several actors were involved, yet the problem is solved. I don't think it would be unfair to say Elon built a space ship, because in a way he did, and unless someone is completely unaware of the endeavor of building something complex like a space ship, it's known that's a company composed of several people with different backgrounds that worked towards the building of a spaceship. If you wanted to be accurate/correct then every time credit was due we should roll movie-like-credits.
- pksebben 6y ago
  that last statement, I agree with completely. I think it's one of our largest cultural blind spots - we like simple answers so we give credit to the people at the top of the decision making chain. It's why executive salaries and bonuses are so out of control high, and so many low skill or even high skill / not management positions are underpaid. We should be granting credit the way that movies do. For want of a shoe, the horse was lost etc.
  - libertine 6y ago
    I do agree with you on this, that's definitely that status quo and probably influences salaries.