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The plan I have had in my drawers for about 3 years now is that I want to make a civilization game but where the focus is on keeping your own civ together. Civ

by Iv 5y ago

The plan I have had in my drawers for about 3 years now is that I want to make a civilization game but where the focus is on keeping your own civ together. Civilizations fell more often because of internal dissensions than because of enemy attacks. Tech and actions would all be about finding things that make two cultures a bit closer, two groups work together.

op03 5y ago
Good idea really. Did you work out what type of actions? Made me think of Gregory Batesons schismogenesis work. According to his theory the divisions are sort of almost a given within groups, but they don't lead to schism/conflict/collapse when society produces Rituals. Would be really cool to see games exploring or capable of producing rituals as a route...no idea how that would work...
- Iv 5y ago
  Actually I have a list of actions but I am not sure which one should be kind of automated and which one should be player controlled. At first, I was mostly interested in the spread of ideas and behaviors. The Player would be in the implicit role of a guiding deity, able to invest in new ideas/behaviors and in reordering priority of one tribe. But then, there is a big list of actions that could also be in the player's control: - Create roads/trades to facilitate exchanges of goods, with the indirect goal of also exchanging ideas - Create trade nexus, for the same goal, and drain a whole area into a common culutural pool - Promote one or several languages, to please/facilitate collaboration within tribes - Promote religions - Have sports events - Have culturual events - Have several type of "diplomats" (priests, doctors, clerks, ambassadors, police officers) with selectabletraits: language, religion, ideas. - Decide to militarize some territories or not with selected troops. - Create research facilities One idea behind research is that as you go, you discover ideas that, once spread, can help your entity grow without breaking up and with less efficiency loss. There would be a lot of overlap with the Civ tech tree but with less emphasis on military tech. My hope is that if done right, this should give the impression to the player that wars are just a huge waste of time and resources.
  - op03 5y ago
    Really interesting...and big list...quite ambitious. You should get to work! :) If you are interested in the cooperation vs confrontation tradeoff maybe check out Robert Axelrods games - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolution_of_Cooperation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolution_of_Cooperation
e3bc54b2 5y ago
Civilizations that fell because of internal dissention were big examples because they were so big that there was no threat from outside. When there is not outside enemy, one is created within to suit the needs. Not to mention internal strife can invite and give another party an opening. See US before/after WW2/Cold war, or Rome before/after Punic wars
elijaht 5y ago
There are a couple great mods for older Civilization games that capture this particular dynamic. Rhye's and Fall [1] has a lot of this. In particular it follows the "real" history and capturing a-historical areas or expanding too quickly makes it brutally hard to keep your empire together [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhye%27s_and_Fall_of_Civilization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhye%27s_and_Fall_of_Civilizat...

by Iv 5y ago

op03 5y ago

Good idea really. Did you work out what type of actions? Made me think of Gregory Batesons schismogenesis work. According to his theory the divisions are sort of almost a given within groups, but they don't lead to schism/conflict/collapse when society produces Rituals. Would be really cool to see games exploring or capable of producing rituals as a route...no idea how that would work...

Iv 5y ago
Actually I have a list of actions but I am not sure which one should be kind of automated and which one should be player controlled. At first, I was mostly interested in the spread of ideas and behaviors. The Player would be in the implicit role of a guiding deity, able to invest in new ideas/behaviors and in reordering priority of one tribe. But then, there is a big list of actions that could also be in the player's control: - Create roads/trades to facilitate exchanges of goods, with the indirect goal of also exchanging ideas - Create trade nexus, for the same goal, and drain a whole area into a common culutural pool - Promote one or several languages, to please/facilitate collaboration within tribes - Promote religions - Have sports events - Have culturual events - Have several type of "diplomats" (priests, doctors, clerks, ambassadors, police officers) with selectabletraits: language, religion, ideas. - Decide to militarize some territories or not with selected troops. - Create research facilities One idea behind research is that as you go, you discover ideas that, once spread, can help your entity grow without breaking up and with less efficiency loss. There would be a lot of overlap with the Civ tech tree but with less emphasis on military tech. My hope is that if done right, this should give the impression to the player that wars are just a huge waste of time and resources.
- op03 5y ago
  Really interesting...and big list...quite ambitious. You should get to work! :) If you are interested in the cooperation vs confrontation tradeoff maybe check out Robert Axelrods games - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolution_of_Cooperation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolution_of_Cooperation

e3bc54b2 5y ago

Civilizations that fell because of internal dissention were big examples because they were so big that there was no threat from outside. When there is not outside enemy, one is created within to suit the needs. Not to mention internal strife can invite and give another party an opening. See US before/after WW2/Cold war, or Rome before/after Punic wars

elijaht 5y ago

There are a couple great mods for older Civilization games that capture this particular dynamic. Rhye's and Fall [1] has a lot of this. In particular it follows the "real" history and capturing a-historical areas or expanding too quickly makes it brutally hard to keep your empire together [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhye%27s_and_Fall_of_Civilization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhye%27s_and_Fall_of_Civilizat...