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Is bitcoin really decentralized if mining and nodes are centralized?

anonytrary 6y ago
No. True decentralization requires proof of person. Proof of work, stake, capacity, etc. all make it possible for a single person to buy their way into higher voting power.
- runeks 6y ago
  You can always buy people’s votes. Regardless of who holds the voting power.
  - anonytrary 6y ago
    You are right... I think it might be unsolvable. Nothing stops two people from conspiring to vote in the same direction. Either party A and B decide (off-network) to vote together, or party A pays party B to vote in the same direction. I don't see a way to solve the problem. Crypto is next-generation wealth redistribution technology, but it is likely that "true decentralization" is a utopia. At the end of the day, people are gonna listen to their family and friends before anyone else, hence vote polarization and pockets of centralization.
emerged 6y ago
I don’t know if you’ve caught the memo, but cryptocurrency is a Ponzi scheme at a scale we haven’t seen before with a side effect of actively contributing to the most significant existential threat since and including nuclear Holocaust.
- _heimdall 6y ago
  Modern financial markets are Ponzi schemes, and they are much larger than bitcoin. How did you decide to compare the risk of nuclear holocaust to global warming? Anecdotally, I'd rather see temperatures rise over time and have a chance to adjust for it rather than die in a nuclear blast or issues immediately after.
  - kaba0 6y ago
    People really have trouble understanding run-off events. You do realize that global temperature increase will not be linear? A slight increase in temperature melts ice that previously trapped plenty of CO2, which will increase the green house effect, increasing temperatures, and here is your feed back loop.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
xiphias2 6y ago
Decentralization is not a binary choice, as 100% can't be achieved. At the same time price action over the last 10 years show that it may be decentralized enough to survive and.succeed.
lottin 6y ago
They never said what "decentralized" meant for a currency, so it basically means anything you want.
New_California 6y ago
Bitcoin is meaningfully decentralized because miners alone do not decide the fate of Bitcoin - there are also users, businesses, and developers as major actros. The 51%++ actor cannot kill Bitcoin, only cause inconvenience. The worst that could happen is a successful DoS that would force a hard fork to another PoW algorithm. PS1 The full nodes are actually very well decentralized. PS2 The physical hash power is skewed towards China, which is not ideal, but it tends to decentralize to US, Canada and to lesser extent other countries. It is improving.
- akira2501 6y ago
  How much of that still holds true after all 21.6 million coins have been mined?

No. True decentralization requires proof of person. Proof of work, stake, capacity, etc. all make it possible for a single person to buy their way into higher voting power.

runeks 6y ago
You can always buy people’s votes. Regardless of who holds the voting power.
- anonytrary 6y ago
  You are right... I think it might be unsolvable. Nothing stops two people from conspiring to vote in the same direction. Either party A and B decide (off-network) to vote together, or party A pays party B to vote in the same direction. I don't see a way to solve the problem. Crypto is next-generation wealth redistribution technology, but it is likely that "true decentralization" is a utopia. At the end of the day, people are gonna listen to their family and friends before anyone else, hence vote polarization and pockets of centralization.

emerged 6y ago

I don’t know if you’ve caught the memo, but cryptocurrency is a Ponzi scheme at a scale we haven’t seen before with a side effect of actively contributing to the most significant existential threat since and including nuclear Holocaust.

_heimdall 6y ago
Modern financial markets are Ponzi schemes, and they are much larger than bitcoin. How did you decide to compare the risk of nuclear holocaust to global warming? Anecdotally, I'd rather see temperatures rise over time and have a chance to adjust for it rather than die in a nuclear blast or issues immediately after.
- kaba0 6y ago
  People really have trouble understanding run-off events. You do realize that global temperature increase will not be linear? A slight increase in temperature melts ice that previously trapped plenty of CO2, which will increase the green house effect, increasing temperatures, and here is your feed back loop.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

xiphias2 6y ago

Decentralization is not a binary choice, as 100% can't be achieved. At the same time price action over the last 10 years show that it may be decentralized enough to survive and.succeed.

lottin 6y ago

They never said what "decentralized" meant for a currency, so it basically means anything you want.

New_California 6y ago

Bitcoin is meaningfully decentralized because miners alone do not decide the fate of Bitcoin - there are also users, businesses, and developers as major actros. The 51%++ actor cannot kill Bitcoin, only cause inconvenience. The worst that could happen is a successful DoS that would force a hard fork to another PoW algorithm. PS1 The full nodes are actually very well decentralized. PS2 The physical hash power is skewed towards China, which is not ideal, but it tends to decentralize to US, Canada and to lesser extent other countries. It is improving.

akira2501 6y ago
How much of that still holds true after all 21.6 million coins have been mined?