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When employer says “unlimited” they actually mean “take as many as you like as long as your manager is happy with your work” so I doubt you can formalize that i

When employer says “unlimited” they actually mean “take as many as you like as long as your manager is happy with your work” so I doubt you can formalize that in the offer. It’s good deal tho for people who can deliver the goods

ryandrake 6y ago
If you do really good can you take a year off? If not, then it’s still not unlimited. I’d like my salary and benefits be quantified in my contract rather than “manager discretion” which can go south in a hurry if you have a terrible manager.
- dilyevsky 6y ago
  If you want to be real pedantic I can counter with the fact that at least in the US and with the “at-will” contract just because they promised you 25 days of vacation doesn’t mean you can take it whenever you please or at all.
  - rightbyte 6y ago
    If you get fired befoee the PTO do you get the money they stocked for you?
    - ryathal 6y ago
      Fired might be different, but if you leave some places won't pay out vacation or only 50%. Some places have learned not paying out banked leave leads to poor outcomes but others still get away with it. Not paying out vacation is a good way to get someone to take all their vacation right before they leave so you get no time to offload work.
      - infinite8s 6y ago
        Also depends on the state (for example, in New York State employers are mandated to pay out accrued vacation time unless it's a stated, formalized policy not to).
- tjr225 6y ago
  In reality I saw employee #1 switch to a different project and take 3 months off. Seems reasonable. I was happy taking a Friday off here and there when I needed and taking weeks off when I moved. This was in addition to my regular vacations prior to the pandemic. Everyone anti-unlimited PTO seems to be completely missing the forest for the trees. It’s nice to be respected and trusted to do your work. It’s also nice to fuck off whenever you want. The argument here is that of course you can’t take a year off and reasonably do your job. Well; we all knew that already. Genuine Unlimited time off creates an environment of respect between the employee and the employer. If I do my job; I can take some time off. You can’t really do your job if you’re never there, so I don’t get your point.
  - Pet_Ant 6y ago
    If you can’t do your job because it’s unreasonable and or the organization is dysfunctional it’s still nice to have time off to depend on.
  - balfirevic 6y ago
    > If I do my job; I can take some time off. What does it mean to "do your job"? At every place I've worked there was an infinite amount of job to be done. If I were to take 4 months off I would do less of it than if I've taken 1 month. So that just shifts the conversation from "how much vacation you have" to "what amount of work is considered enough". Which doesn't seem all that different to me, or at least it would not have been at any place I've worked at.
    - leetcrew 6y ago
      to be fair, "what amount of work is considered enough" is still an issue with the traditional PTO setup. following the HR manual to a T is not sufficient to keep a job if you never finish anything. I do prefer the traditional accrual system as I feel it makes expectations more clear, and it slightly reduces the impact of the "did I get a reasonable manager" die roll. also some people (like me) just don't take a ton of PTO. I look forward to cashing out the max accrual at my final salary whenever I end up switching jobs. unlimited PTO essentially penalizes people like this.

ryandrake 6y ago

If you do really good can you take a year off? If not, then it’s still not unlimited. I’d like my salary and benefits be quantified in my contract rather than “manager discretion” which can go south in a hurry if you have a terrible manager.

dilyevsky 6y ago
If you want to be real pedantic I can counter with the fact that at least in the US and with the “at-will” contract just because they promised you 25 days of vacation doesn’t mean you can take it whenever you please or at all.
- rightbyte 6y ago
  If you get fired befoee the PTO do you get the money they stocked for you?
  - ryathal 6y ago
    Fired might be different, but if you leave some places won't pay out vacation or only 50%. Some places have learned not paying out banked leave leads to poor outcomes but others still get away with it. Not paying out vacation is a good way to get someone to take all their vacation right before they leave so you get no time to offload work.
    - infinite8s 6y ago
      Also depends on the state (for example, in New York State employers are mandated to pay out accrued vacation time unless it's a stated, formalized policy not to).
tjr225 6y ago
In reality I saw employee #1 switch to a different project and take 3 months off. Seems reasonable. I was happy taking a Friday off here and there when I needed and taking weeks off when I moved. This was in addition to my regular vacations prior to the pandemic. Everyone anti-unlimited PTO seems to be completely missing the forest for the trees. It’s nice to be respected and trusted to do your work. It’s also nice to fuck off whenever you want. The argument here is that of course you can’t take a year off and reasonably do your job. Well; we all knew that already. Genuine Unlimited time off creates an environment of respect between the employee and the employer. If I do my job; I can take some time off. You can’t really do your job if you’re never there, so I don’t get your point.
- Pet_Ant 6y ago
  If you can’t do your job because it’s unreasonable and or the organization is dysfunctional it’s still nice to have time off to depend on.
- balfirevic 6y ago
  > If I do my job; I can take some time off. What does it mean to "do your job"? At every place I've worked there was an infinite amount of job to be done. If I were to take 4 months off I would do less of it than if I've taken 1 month. So that just shifts the conversation from "how much vacation you have" to "what amount of work is considered enough". Which doesn't seem all that different to me, or at least it would not have been at any place I've worked at.
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    to be fair, "what amount of work is considered enough" is still an issue with the traditional PTO setup. following the HR manual to a T is not sufficient to keep a job if you never finish anything. I do prefer the traditional accrual system as I feel it makes expectations more clear, and it slightly reduces the impact of the "did I get a reasonable manager" die roll. also some people (like me) just don't take a ton of PTO. I look forward to cashing out the max accrual at my final salary whenever I end up switching jobs. unlimited PTO essentially penalizes people like this.