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No, this can't be how the world works. It's good that people have and express opinions about outcomes rather than letting the elite who understand the esoteric

by panic 5y ago

No, this can't be how the world works. It's good that people have and express opinions about outcomes rather than letting the elite who understand the esoteric mechanisms behind those outcomes do whatever they want.

MrPowers 5y ago
To be clear, the "esoteric mechanisms" are invented by some relatively low paid IRS tax nerds and then signed into law by congress (people that certainly cannot understand the rules and probably don't even bother reading them). I agree the rules are ridiculous, but don't think they've been created by "the elite".
- stepanhruda 5y ago
  What do you think lobbyists do? IRS tax nerds write some rules and then loopholes lobbied for by corporations get injected into the final bill. Just heard the other day from AOC that the new COVID relief bill had such a ridiculous clause that no one even stepped up to claim they put it in, so they just removed it without any resistance. The whole bill authoring model is currently broken, representatives receive ridiculously little time to review what to vote for and massive bills are basically take it or leave it.
  - MrPowers 5y ago
    I agree with you. Some tax law is from lobbyists & some is from tax nerds. Congress doesn't have enough time to read laws (and they simply aren't qualified for tax law - some requires CFA-level understanding of accounting / finance). For the specific tax law that taxpayers have leveraged that the IRS now doesn't like, I'm pretty sure it came from an IRS nerd. The Residual Profit Split Method. That one could only have come from a new grad.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Congress doesn't have enough time to read laws (and they simply aren't qualified for tax law - some requires CFA-level understanding of accounting / finance). Individual members may not, but they probably have legislative staffers that do, and the staff (majority and minority) of the tax committees, who prepare and distribute analyses of all tax bills, definitely have the skills to read, understand, and explain the implications of tax bills. Members of Congress may not care, but they definitely have access to a competent understanding of proposed tax laws.
- mnbv55 5y ago
  The most naive collection of people on Earth exists right here on HN. You don't think the elites have had an influence on tax law? Jesus fucking Christ.
- yunohn 5y ago
  There’s no way you can argue this in good faith. In what world are “IRS nerds” inventing tax laws out of thin air? They’re codifying what lobbyists and politicians want them to.
nate_meurer 5y ago
If you're talking about a healthy balance between elite expertise and proletariat sensibilities, that's hard to argue with. But there's danger in the prospect of destructive laws and regulations based on the popular idea that, say, vaccines cause autism, or 5G causes cancer.
DoctorOW 5y ago
I'm fine with advocating for outcomes but it can be exhausting to hear uninformed policy positions when you have actual education. Vaguely Relevant Comic: https://www.commitstrip.com/en/2020/05/26/experts/ https://www.commitstrip.com/en/2020/05/26/experts/
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- chakhs 5y ago
  The difference being people are allowed to have opinions and voice them because economy/tax measures affect their lives. Using whatever stack or library does not affect anybody so they don't care. This is just like saying people should not be able to vote because they don't understand geopolitics.

by panic 5y ago

MrPowers 5y ago

To be clear, the "esoteric mechanisms" are invented by some relatively low paid IRS tax nerds and then signed into law by congress (people that certainly cannot understand the rules and probably don't even bother reading them). I agree the rules are ridiculous, but don't think they've been created by "the elite".

stepanhruda 5y ago
What do you think lobbyists do? IRS tax nerds write some rules and then loopholes lobbied for by corporations get injected into the final bill. Just heard the other day from AOC that the new COVID relief bill had such a ridiculous clause that no one even stepped up to claim they put it in, so they just removed it without any resistance. The whole bill authoring model is currently broken, representatives receive ridiculously little time to review what to vote for and massive bills are basically take it or leave it.
- MrPowers 5y ago
  I agree with you. Some tax law is from lobbyists & some is from tax nerds. Congress doesn't have enough time to read laws (and they simply aren't qualified for tax law - some requires CFA-level understanding of accounting / finance). For the specific tax law that taxpayers have leveraged that the IRS now doesn't like, I'm pretty sure it came from an IRS nerd. The Residual Profit Split Method. That one could only have come from a new grad.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Congress doesn't have enough time to read laws (and they simply aren't qualified for tax law - some requires CFA-level understanding of accounting / finance). Individual members may not, but they probably have legislative staffers that do, and the staff (majority and minority) of the tax committees, who prepare and distribute analyses of all tax bills, definitely have the skills to read, understand, and explain the implications of tax bills. Members of Congress may not care, but they definitely have access to a competent understanding of proposed tax laws.
mnbv55 5y ago
The most naive collection of people on Earth exists right here on HN. You don't think the elites have had an influence on tax law? Jesus fucking Christ.
yunohn 5y ago
There’s no way you can argue this in good faith. In what world are “IRS nerds” inventing tax laws out of thin air? They’re codifying what lobbyists and politicians want them to.

nate_meurer 5y ago

If you're talking about a healthy balance between elite expertise and proletariat sensibilities, that's hard to argue with. But there's danger in the prospect of destructive laws and regulations based on the popular idea that, say, vaccines cause autism, or 5G causes cancer.

DoctorOW 5y ago

I'm fine with advocating for outcomes but it can be exhausting to hear uninformed policy positions when you have actual education. Vaguely Relevant Comic: https://www.commitstrip.com/en/2020/05/26/experts/ https://www.commitstrip.com/en/2020/05/26/experts/

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
chakhs 5y ago
The difference being people are allowed to have opinions and voice them because economy/tax measures affect their lives. Using whatever stack or library does not affect anybody so they don't care. This is just like saying people should not be able to vote because they don't understand geopolitics.