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I think this is clearly negligence, I immediately saw the danger at a glance of the image in the article but had to look twice to confirm that they left off the

I think this is clearly negligence, I immediately saw the danger at a glance of the image in the article but had to look twice to confirm that they left off the guard for the bottom. They should be sued and the designer should find other work preferably not involving anything that could pose a danger to human life, maybe floral arrangement as long as they don’t find purple, yellow and red an appealing combination.

joering2 6y ago
Thats very harsh to the designer. I know many and nobody would design machine to kill. Its obvious the management decided to cut few hundred bucks to get higher bonuses. This thing needs to be banned first, company investigate second. Bet there are email trails from angry engineers telling exactly what most of us say here. The excuse that only few people get killed so its all kumbayah is the most despicable thing a CEO can say. He needs to resign immediately.
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  There is literally nothing about a Peloton bike that screams cost savings. My hunch is that the slat based system doesn't allow for guards like most treadmills First result I got for a slat based treadmill other than the Tread has the same problem: http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2559/4942/products/trueform_enduro-1_1200x630.jpg?v=1560267857 http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2559/4942/products/trueform... To me the thing that makes my heart drop instantly is seeing two small children messing with a treadmill. An easily deadly combination regardless of guards, to me this is on the same level as leaving kids with heavy machinery.
  - lerchmo 6y ago
    Key difference is those are un-powered treadmills.
    - BoorishBears 6y ago
      If you're actually interested in looking into this you're free to search and find multiple models powered and unpowered with similar designs: https://www.fitnesssuperstore.com/Woodway-Desmo-Evo-Treadmill-p/ww-des-evo.htm https://www.fitnesssuperstore.com/Woodway-Desmo-Evo-Treadmil... I stand by saying having the machine powered near kids is already game over. They should maybe add a child-safe mode that requires an additional pin to activate, guards are a red herring here
      - willvarfar 6y ago
        The treadmills at a nearby gym have a cord you clip to your chest. If you go off the back of the mill, it tugs on the cord and triggers the dead-man-switch. Of course, I've never seen anyone attach the cord.
        saalweachter 6y ago
        I do, at home or the gym, but I'll admit I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone else do it.
        BoorishBears 6y ago
        It has one, I have a Tread and it's referred to as the "key" and has the same type of clip. Kids of course don't know to use an emergency stop which is why I'm going on and on about maybe not being negligent parents and leaving kids near a piece of power equipment that causes 20k+ injuries a year... But apparently that's a radical take for HN
      - cycomanic 6y ago
        This might sound a bit confrontational, but do you have any involvement with peloton? Because you've been posting multiple times in this thread posting pictures of other treadmills which don't have guards but clearly show a design which sits so close to the ground that it's impossible for something to be pulled under. So somehow I can't help but think if there are some other motives for your posts.
  - todd8 6y ago
    The picture you link to is of a pair of Truform Runner treadmills[1]. I have no idea of how safe they are, but they are notable for not having motors which means that they wouldn’t pull a child under them on their own. Could they injure a child? I don’t know. Perhaps someone that has used one and can comment on it. I’ve been thinking of replacing my current treadmill with one of these. I don’t have small children or pets, but I’d like to get a safe treadmill if I’m going to buy new one. [1] https://trueformrunner.com https://trueformrunner.com
    - BoorishBears 6y ago
      https://www.fitnesssuperstore.com/Woodway-Desmo-Evo-Treadmill-p/ww-des-evo.htm?gclid=CjwKCAjwjuqDBhAGEiwAdX2cjyADMcAftJJUCbjoJ00LXGfh7W7PsuVdZDq0ET16p-mFfw2GyExptxoCmW8QAvD_BwE https://www.fitnesssuperstore.com/Woodway-Desmo-Evo-Treadmil... There are many models of slatted treadmills and in my shopping I haven't seen one with a guard It could be a coincidence, a lot of treadmills period don't have guards, but really I think the answer here is maybe making sure kids can't activate it I was expecting the child standing on it to be the one hurt since at full tilt those could easily catapult a child with deadly force..
      - buran77 6y ago
        > the answer here is maybe making sure kids can't activate it That doesn't help if a kid or pet are caught in there while the adult is on the treadmill, especially at higher speeds or when reaction time is slowed due to wearing headphones. The answer is to install protection. Having slats instead of the classic band doesn't make it impossible to protect that pinch point, rather just makes the machine bulkier (longer) and less aesthetically pleasing. There are plenty of mechanisms and sensors that can detect something being caught in there and immediately stop operation but they cost more. See the video above, with the small child being slowly pulled under the treadmill. The machine not being able to detect *it lifted off the ground repeatedly while operating" in order to come to a full stop immediately is the kind of thing that happens when half-assed engineers meet half-assed managers, thinking they can make a "full-assed" product.
grumpyautist 6y ago
How is it negligence? Are the parents not negligent for letting their kids play with dangerous equipment? I thought young child and big machine was a no brainer
- 7952 6y ago
  Well some parents make mistakes or unpredictable situations happen. That is hardly unusual in a house with pets or kids. It is expected. Of course you should design with that in mind. A bunch of warnings that no one reads is no excuse.
- throwaway316943 6y ago
  The large gap with an exposed high speed belt is an obvious hazard and is completely unnecessary. There’s an argument for not letting your children play with treadmills unsupervised but there’s no defence for a design that would allow a child to be sucked into the machine while it’s in use if they happen to wander in to the room and fall behind it. It’s an easy to imagine scenario since they might try to approach their parent from behind and be struck down by the moving edge of the belt and then pulled under.
- knolax 6y ago
  How is not having railings negligent? Isn't it negligent to stand so close to the edge?

joering2 6y ago

Thats very harsh to the designer. I know many and nobody would design machine to kill. Its obvious the management decided to cut few hundred bucks to get higher bonuses. This thing needs to be banned first, company investigate second. Bet there are email trails from angry engineers telling exactly what most of us say here. The excuse that only few people get killed so its all kumbayah is the most despicable thing a CEO can say. He needs to resign immediately.

BoorishBears 6y ago
There is literally nothing about a Peloton bike that screams cost savings. My hunch is that the slat based system doesn't allow for guards like most treadmills First result I got for a slat based treadmill other than the Tread has the same problem: http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2559/4942/products/trueform_enduro-1_1200x630.jpg?v=1560267857 http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2559/4942/products/trueform... To me the thing that makes my heart drop instantly is seeing two small children messing with a treadmill. An easily deadly combination regardless of guards, to me this is on the same level as leaving kids with heavy machinery.
- lerchmo 6y ago
  Key difference is those are un-powered treadmills.
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    If you're actually interested in looking into this you're free to search and find multiple models powered and unpowered with similar designs: https://www.fitnesssuperstore.com/Woodway-Desmo-Evo-Treadmill-p/ww-des-evo.htm https://www.fitnesssuperstore.com/Woodway-Desmo-Evo-Treadmil... I stand by saying having the machine powered near kids is already game over. They should maybe add a child-safe mode that requires an additional pin to activate, guards are a red herring here
    - willvarfar 6y ago
      The treadmills at a nearby gym have a cord you clip to your chest. If you go off the back of the mill, it tugs on the cord and triggers the dead-man-switch. Of course, I've never seen anyone attach the cord.
      - saalweachter 6y ago
        I do, at home or the gym, but I'll admit I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone else do it.
      - BoorishBears 6y ago
        It has one, I have a Tread and it's referred to as the "key" and has the same type of clip. Kids of course don't know to use an emergency stop which is why I'm going on and on about maybe not being negligent parents and leaving kids near a piece of power equipment that causes 20k+ injuries a year... But apparently that's a radical take for HN
    - cycomanic 6y ago
      This might sound a bit confrontational, but do you have any involvement with peloton? Because you've been posting multiple times in this thread posting pictures of other treadmills which don't have guards but clearly show a design which sits so close to the ground that it's impossible for something to be pulled under. So somehow I can't help but think if there are some other motives for your posts.
- todd8 6y ago
  The picture you link to is of a pair of Truform Runner treadmills[1]. I have no idea of how safe they are, but they are notable for not having motors which means that they wouldn’t pull a child under them on their own. Could they injure a child? I don’t know. Perhaps someone that has used one and can comment on it. I’ve been thinking of replacing my current treadmill with one of these. I don’t have small children or pets, but I’d like to get a safe treadmill if I’m going to buy new one. [1] https://trueformrunner.com https://trueformrunner.com
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    https://www.fitnesssuperstore.com/Woodway-Desmo-Evo-Treadmill-p/ww-des-evo.htm?gclid=CjwKCAjwjuqDBhAGEiwAdX2cjyADMcAftJJUCbjoJ00LXGfh7W7PsuVdZDq0ET16p-mFfw2GyExptxoCmW8QAvD_BwE https://www.fitnesssuperstore.com/Woodway-Desmo-Evo-Treadmil... There are many models of slatted treadmills and in my shopping I haven't seen one with a guard It could be a coincidence, a lot of treadmills period don't have guards, but really I think the answer here is maybe making sure kids can't activate it I was expecting the child standing on it to be the one hurt since at full tilt those could easily catapult a child with deadly force..
    - buran77 6y ago
      > the answer here is maybe making sure kids can't activate it That doesn't help if a kid or pet are caught in there while the adult is on the treadmill, especially at higher speeds or when reaction time is slowed due to wearing headphones. The answer is to install protection. Having slats instead of the classic band doesn't make it impossible to protect that pinch point, rather just makes the machine bulkier (longer) and less aesthetically pleasing. There are plenty of mechanisms and sensors that can detect something being caught in there and immediately stop operation but they cost more. See the video above, with the small child being slowly pulled under the treadmill. The machine not being able to detect *it lifted off the ground repeatedly while operating" in order to come to a full stop immediately is the kind of thing that happens when half-assed engineers meet half-assed managers, thinking they can make a "full-assed" product.

grumpyautist 6y ago

How is it negligence? Are the parents not negligent for letting their kids play with dangerous equipment? I thought young child and big machine was a no brainer

7952 6y ago
Well some parents make mistakes or unpredictable situations happen. That is hardly unusual in a house with pets or kids. It is expected. Of course you should design with that in mind. A bunch of warnings that no one reads is no excuse.
throwaway316943 6y ago
The large gap with an exposed high speed belt is an obvious hazard and is completely unnecessary. There’s an argument for not letting your children play with treadmills unsupervised but there’s no defence for a design that would allow a child to be sucked into the machine while it’s in use if they happen to wander in to the room and fall behind it. It’s an easy to imagine scenario since they might try to approach their parent from behind and be struck down by the moving edge of the belt and then pulled under.
knolax 6y ago
How is not having railings negligent? Isn't it negligent to stand so close to the edge?