4 ms·

Paying a fair amount of taxes definitely has a big ethical component to it, AND the laws around it probably ought to be changed, but that doesn't imply that the

Paying a fair amount of taxes definitely has a big ethical component to it, AND the laws around it probably ought to be changed, but that doesn't imply that they should be changed strictly because of the ethical reasons. Specifically, collecting a reasonable amount of taxes is key to the function of governments as they're set up. It would be unethical to sell somebody a car that secretly has no motor, but ethics isn't the only reason cars need motors.

shadowgovt 5y ago
It is worth noting that what is "reasonable" and who owes it is one of the largest pieces of the work of a government.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
gher-shyu3i 5y ago
What's "fair share"? This keep getting repeated without any quantification.
- nraynaud 5y ago
  In France it’s codified at the constitutional level, it’s a varying tax rate (ie marginal tax rate with slices)
insert_coin 5y ago
Taxes long ago stopped being the main way governments fund themselves. If taxes were about financing the government there would just be one tax called the-cost-of-government-tax and that's it. There would be no need to tax everything you do, and at different rates and on some days but not others, but when the moon is full on tuesday you pay double except if you lived on 72nd street during 2008... Taxes are about control, about influence, and about corruption. The loopholes are there becasue someone put them there, they are not hidden. The tax-code is so complex because someone made it that complex, someone doesn't want it to be easy.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Taxes long ago stopped being the main way governments fund themselves. No they didn’t. Most governments are mostly funded by taxes. (The rest of your post doesn’t support this thesis, but instead the thesis that funding government. operations isn’t the exclusive purpose of taxes, which I don’t think anyone would dispute, and which is orthogonal to whether governments are mainly funded by taxes.)
  - insert_coin 5y ago
    Most countries finance themselves with the always convenient "future-taxes" excuse, in other words, debt. It is the reason congress has to keep raising the debt ceiling, so they can keep borrowing money. Last year, the US collected $3.42 trillion in taxes, but spent $6.55 trillion for a record deficit of $3.13 trillion. This year is projected to break that record. https://www.thebalance.com/fy-2020-federal-budget-summary-of-revenue-and-spending-4797868 https://www.thebalance.com/fy-2020-federal-budget-summary-of...
    - lovecg 5y ago
      Would be worse without taxes though, no? Since you mentioned the debt ceiling, that’s another concept that doesn’t make any sense (except as yet another thing more politics can be piled on to). It’s like first the congress votes on the size of the budget, and then separately on the size of the door that it has to fit through.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Most countries finance themselves with the always convenient "future-taxes" excuse, in other words, debt. No, most countries finance themselves primarily by taxes; they typically also use debt financing, especially (in relative terms) countercyclically in economic downturns. > Last year, the US collected $3.42 trillion in taxes, but spent $6.55 trillion for a record deficit of $3.13 trillion. So, even the best single example you could come up with is...financed primarily by taxes, even in the one year you tried to pull as a counterexample?

shadowgovt 5y ago

It is worth noting that what is "reasonable" and who owes it is one of the largest pieces of the work of a government.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

gher-shyu3i 5y ago

What's "fair share"? This keep getting repeated without any quantification.

nraynaud 5y ago
In France it’s codified at the constitutional level, it’s a varying tax rate (ie marginal tax rate with slices)

insert_coin 5y ago

Taxes long ago stopped being the main way governments fund themselves. If taxes were about financing the government there would just be one tax called the-cost-of-government-tax and that's it. There would be no need to tax everything you do, and at different rates and on some days but not others, but when the moon is full on tuesday you pay double except if you lived on 72nd street during 2008... Taxes are about control, about influence, and about corruption. The loopholes are there becasue someone put them there, they are not hidden. The tax-code is so complex because someone made it that complex, someone doesn't want it to be easy.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> Taxes long ago stopped being the main way governments fund themselves. No they didn’t. Most governments are mostly funded by taxes. (The rest of your post doesn’t support this thesis, but instead the thesis that funding government. operations isn’t the exclusive purpose of taxes, which I don’t think anyone would dispute, and which is orthogonal to whether governments are mainly funded by taxes.)
- insert_coin 5y ago
  Most countries finance themselves with the always convenient "future-taxes" excuse, in other words, debt. It is the reason congress has to keep raising the debt ceiling, so they can keep borrowing money. Last year, the US collected $3.42 trillion in taxes, but spent $6.55 trillion for a record deficit of $3.13 trillion. This year is projected to break that record. https://www.thebalance.com/fy-2020-federal-budget-summary-of-revenue-and-spending-4797868 https://www.thebalance.com/fy-2020-federal-budget-summary-of...
  - lovecg 5y ago
    Would be worse without taxes though, no? Since you mentioned the debt ceiling, that’s another concept that doesn’t make any sense (except as yet another thing more politics can be piled on to). It’s like first the congress votes on the size of the budget, and then separately on the size of the door that it has to fit through.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Most countries finance themselves with the always convenient "future-taxes" excuse, in other words, debt. No, most countries finance themselves primarily by taxes; they typically also use debt financing, especially (in relative terms) countercyclically in economic downturns. > Last year, the US collected $3.42 trillion in taxes, but spent $6.55 trillion for a record deficit of $3.13 trillion. So, even the best single example you could come up with is...financed primarily by taxes, even in the one year you tried to pull as a counterexample?