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> I really wish the kernel list would detect that a post has valid text and html content and just throw away the html Because. https://stackoverflow.com/quest

> I really wish the kernel list would detect that a post has valid text and html content and just throw away the html Because. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/regex-match-open-tags-except-xhtml-self-contained-tags https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/regex-match-open... Honestly, I am not trying to put on my old-man hat, but I despise anything other than plain text in email. I agree with the KML. Email should not have binaries, html, tags, etc... of course, M$ and others will happily render them, so why not, right?

iudqnolq 6y ago
Email can have multiple parallel payloads in different formats (see MIME). It's part of the spec, not a hack. The OP is suggesting that if LKML gets multiple payloads where it can understand one of them it just selects the one it can understand. This is what other text-only clients do. They're not suggesting parsing html into text (tangentially, if they were, there are much better approaches than the one you linked. One of the most commonly used ones is originally by Aaron Schwartz https://github.com/aaronsw/html2text https://github.com/aaronsw/html2text )
- seniorgarcia 6y ago
  I'm kinda curious which client makes writing plain text emails hard though.
  - xena 6y ago
    Article author here. Gmail and Apple Mail (macOS/iOS/iPadOS). I had to install aerc on a server to subscribe and post to the list.
    - seniorgarcia 6y ago
      I don't post to this specific list, so there might be weird issues I'm not aware of but... Gmail has the plain text option behind the 3dot menu in the bottom right corner. Apple Mail deserves to die a fiery death and I refuse to support it but "Format" -> "Make plain text" *may* send a plain text message, or not depending on the OS X lottery. You can force Apple Mail with "Preferences" -> "Composing" -> "Message Format" -> "Plain Text" to compose plain text messages. Or you can use an actual mail client.
      - xena 6y ago
        > Or you can use an actual mail client. For those of you wanting an explanation of what I meant here, this is a perfect example of it. I do actually have aerc installed now. I just think it's annoying that I had to change my perfectly good workflow that is enough to get me hired at large companies for this. > (this is NOT an invitation to get plaintext email mansplained to me, doing so will get you blocked)
        seniorgarcia 6y ago
        Was my comment mansplaining? I'm genuinely curious. Apple Mail sucks and I'm always shocked how many people think it's "good enough". All the Apple apps are barely functional but fall short when it comes to replace groupware (or actual standard compliant clients. Don't even get me started what Apple Contacts does to vCard). >>I just think it's annoying that I had to change my perfectly good workflow that is enough to get me hired at large companies for this. I don't get what workflow you are talking about.
        zerocrates 6y ago
        The translation/context of the passage in the article was "look, I know how to send plaintext email, I just wish I didn't have to jump through these hoops, so please don't come and try to teach me how to do it" and that is kind of what your comment does.
        seniorgarcia 6y ago
        Which is why I asked what the issue was and the author replied he/she was using Gmail/Apple Mail. I can see using the lkml with Apple Mail being difficult since Apple Mail sucks but sending plain text mails with Gmail should just work and nobody should have to change their email client if they are fine with using Gmail. Even not using lkml, it's a standard conforming mailing list that (presumably) will accept any plain text mail just fine and I do not see why anybody would need to install a separate email client like aerc just to use this mailing list. So, to me it read "I know how plaintext emails work but for some reason my workflow does not work so I changed it to include something else" and I was curious as to why... Curse me for asking? Curse me for damning Apple Mail? Idk... I guess curse me for being curious and trying to help a fellow nerd out while shitting on Apple Mail at the same time.
    - amluto 6y ago
      Hmm. I usually have no problem sending to lkml using iOS’s mail app. Gmail also works if I tell it to format as plain text, but the editor is all kinds of buggy in plain text mode. FWIW, I don’t subscribe to lkml. Instead I point thunderbird at lore.kernel.org’s NNTP feed for the rare occasions in which I need to reply to an on-list message. To the extent that the list’s rules make it hard to get feedback, I consider this a problem. The whole mailing list is in the middle or a giant migration, and I’ll see if I can convince the new overlords to be less strict. (I usually get Linux email directed to me via MAINTAINERS, so this issue doesn’t affect me personally too much. The x86 alias isn’t part of vger and does not have the text hangup, at least to my knowledge.)
    - mlindner 6y ago
      Apple Mail has a drop down menu to convert the mail to plaintext. Format-->Make Plain Text, it's even got a hotkey CMD+SHIFT+T. You can even default it to be in plain text under Composing settings in the Preferences.
kelnos 6y ago
> Email should not have binaries, html, tags, etc. That's like saying postal mail should only allow you to send letters typed on a typewriter. This "email should be plaintext only" idea was reasonable when bandwidth was limited and metered and expensive. While that's still the case in some parts of the world, most of us here are not in that situation. If you, personally, want to reject emails that have attachments or are not plaintext, you're free to do so, of course, but don't suggest that the rest of us are doing it wrong.

iudqnolq 6y ago

Email can have multiple parallel payloads in different formats (see MIME). It's part of the spec, not a hack. The OP is suggesting that if LKML gets multiple payloads where it can understand one of them it just selects the one it can understand. This is what other text-only clients do. They're not suggesting parsing html into text (tangentially, if they were, there are much better approaches than the one you linked. One of the most commonly used ones is originally by Aaron Schwartz https://github.com/aaronsw/html2text https://github.com/aaronsw/html2text )

seniorgarcia 6y ago
I'm kinda curious which client makes writing plain text emails hard though.
- xena 6y ago
  Article author here. Gmail and Apple Mail (macOS/iOS/iPadOS). I had to install aerc on a server to subscribe and post to the list.
  - seniorgarcia 6y ago
    I don't post to this specific list, so there might be weird issues I'm not aware of but... Gmail has the plain text option behind the 3dot menu in the bottom right corner. Apple Mail deserves to die a fiery death and I refuse to support it but "Format" -> "Make plain text" *may* send a plain text message, or not depending on the OS X lottery. You can force Apple Mail with "Preferences" -> "Composing" -> "Message Format" -> "Plain Text" to compose plain text messages. Or you can use an actual mail client.
    - xena 6y ago
      > Or you can use an actual mail client. For those of you wanting an explanation of what I meant here, this is a perfect example of it. I do actually have aerc installed now. I just think it's annoying that I had to change my perfectly good workflow that is enough to get me hired at large companies for this. > (this is NOT an invitation to get plaintext email mansplained to me, doing so will get you blocked)
      - seniorgarcia 6y ago
        Was my comment mansplaining? I'm genuinely curious. Apple Mail sucks and I'm always shocked how many people think it's "good enough". All the Apple apps are barely functional but fall short when it comes to replace groupware (or actual standard compliant clients. Don't even get me started what Apple Contacts does to vCard). >>I just think it's annoying that I had to change my perfectly good workflow that is enough to get me hired at large companies for this. I don't get what workflow you are talking about.
        zerocrates 6y ago
        The translation/context of the passage in the article was "look, I know how to send plaintext email, I just wish I didn't have to jump through these hoops, so please don't come and try to teach me how to do it" and that is kind of what your comment does.
        seniorgarcia 6y ago
        Which is why I asked what the issue was and the author replied he/she was using Gmail/Apple Mail. I can see using the lkml with Apple Mail being difficult since Apple Mail sucks but sending plain text mails with Gmail should just work and nobody should have to change their email client if they are fine with using Gmail. Even not using lkml, it's a standard conforming mailing list that (presumably) will accept any plain text mail just fine and I do not see why anybody would need to install a separate email client like aerc just to use this mailing list. So, to me it read "I know how plaintext emails work but for some reason my workflow does not work so I changed it to include something else" and I was curious as to why... Curse me for asking? Curse me for damning Apple Mail? Idk... I guess curse me for being curious and trying to help a fellow nerd out while shitting on Apple Mail at the same time.
  - amluto 6y ago
    Hmm. I usually have no problem sending to lkml using iOS’s mail app. Gmail also works if I tell it to format as plain text, but the editor is all kinds of buggy in plain text mode. FWIW, I don’t subscribe to lkml. Instead I point thunderbird at lore.kernel.org’s NNTP feed for the rare occasions in which I need to reply to an on-list message. To the extent that the list’s rules make it hard to get feedback, I consider this a problem. The whole mailing list is in the middle or a giant migration, and I’ll see if I can convince the new overlords to be less strict. (I usually get Linux email directed to me via MAINTAINERS, so this issue doesn’t affect me personally too much. The x86 alias isn’t part of vger and does not have the text hangup, at least to my knowledge.)
  - mlindner 6y ago
    Apple Mail has a drop down menu to convert the mail to plaintext. Format-->Make Plain Text, it's even got a hotkey CMD+SHIFT+T. You can even default it to be in plain text under Composing settings in the Preferences.

kelnos 6y ago

> Email should not have binaries, html, tags, etc. That's like saying postal mail should only allow you to send letters typed on a typewriter. This "email should be plaintext only" idea was reasonable when bandwidth was limited and metered and expensive. While that's still the case in some parts of the world, most of us here are not in that situation. If you, personally, want to reject emails that have attachments or are not plaintext, you're free to do so, of course, but don't suggest that the rest of us are doing it wrong.