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I loved Flash, deeply, I learned to program in Flash. But I am slowly in the process of doing a 180 on this, where before I felt like we had lost something with
by danShumway 6y ago
I loved Flash, deeply, I learned to program in Flash. But I am slowly in the process of doing a 180 on this, where before I felt like we had lost something with Flash that nobody had ever replicated. People have different things they liked about Flash. I liked the animation-centered workflow (and I still think there's room for innovation in this space with modern tools). I miss the ability to export vector animations.
There's a technical hole that I still think could be filled by other programs today. But often, I hear people lamenting the loss of community and the loss of universal publishing.
And on that note, aside from the animation-centered workflow, I'm less certain that the rest of that stuff is actually gone. Unity publishes to websites just as well as Flash did, if not better. Unity even lets you publish to Linux, which Flash never really supported well.
And honestly, I'm not sure the community is dead either, it's just moved on to platforms like Scratch, Pico 8, Itch.io, and Roblox. I see very similar energies when I interact with people on those platforms. It's a different community, it's younger kids with different norms, the old generation isn't as welcome anymore. But I'm not sure the reason for that is because Flash died. Sometimes generations grow up and younger generations go act creative in different spaces.
So yes, there is a very specific workflow for a very specific type of game that no longer works on the web. I've used Unity, and I don't really like Unity, I hate it's resource management, I hate that we're still using proprietary software after so many years. But I think more people are making games with Unity today than were making them back then on Flash. It's more accessible.
I'm very, very slowly changing my opinion on this. Part of it is that Flash is still available today under Animate, and while it is still chained to Adobe I've still never heard a really good breakdown of how it's worse or what features it doesn't support anymore. As far as I can tell, you can still use Actionscript 3.0 with Animate. It is proprietary and expensive, but so was Flash -- so if it's purely a technical problem, then I'm not 100% sure that you couldn't still make a Flash website/game today.
I still think there's a hole here that could be better served by Open Source toolchains, but I'm becoming less convinced that it is as big of a deal as I previously thought. If you're trying to make games, now is a really good time to be alive. It could be better, but if you give me the option of making games in 1999 or making games today, I'm not going back to 1999.
And aside from that, even if Flash is a hole, it's still very specifically a hole for games. Even during its heyday, building static websites in Flash was a sin. Almost everything else you want to use to build a static website is still available. Just not that specific sinful part :)
- watwut 6y agoRoblox is not comparable to flash in the ease of development. You don't have kids creating mini games and sharing them either. Scratch is not comparable either. The ease of creating something is just not there in general. The current tools are harder to use for beginner and beginner achieves less with more effort. And open source have bad track record in terms of creating user beginner friendly tools.
- danShumway 6y agoI'm not sure what you mean by this. Roblox is literally a game engine, the entire point is for people to create mini games and share them. That's basically all that Roblox is, if you go to the homepage it's just a list of games you can join. And you can validly complain about the technical quality of tools like Scratch, but as much I personally hate to admit it, Scratch is more user friendly than Flash was. I personally know kids who are making stuff in Scratch that would not be able to handle Flash. It's extremely crude stuff, Scratch is ridiculously limited. But they're still making stuff and sharing it, and getting their friends involved in the process, and sharing hacks with each other to get around its limitations, and finding other projects that impress them and reading their source code. I do get what you mean about Flash's technical side that made it interesting. I miss an animation-first workflow, I wish someone else would build a tool that experimented with that. There is definitely a hole in my game-dev process that Flash left behind. But in theory, you could still be using Animate today and exporting your games to HTML5. Nobody has explained to me what's broken about it. But if everyone in the old Newgrounds scene moved to Animate, or if it was magically released for free tomorrow, would that bring back the community? I'm not sure it's that simple. I don't think that kids stopped being creative when Flash went away. I think that people (myself included) who grew up on Flash got older, and the spaces are different now and we're not being invited to them. Which... I don't know if that's really a technological thing, or even necessarily a problem that needs to be solved. Were there really a ton of 35-40 year olds making stuff on Newgrounds back in the day? I am increasingly learning about community spaces from the kids I know that I would never stumble on by myself on the Internet. And they seem to be pretty vibrant, they're just not my spaces anymore.
- taeric 6y ago