4 ms·

I agree with you, but the problem, the big problem, is that you're looked down if you propose to use simpler tools. It is horribly difficult to not use these a

by midrus 6y ago

I agree with you, but the problem, the big problem, is that you're looked down if you propose to use simpler tools. It is horribly difficult to not use these advanced tools for simpler problems. At work my team does just f**ng CRUD forms, and for doing this we have the most overcomplicated stack I've seen in my life. Go backend with React, Redux, Rxjs,custom.webpack craziness, and 32 tons of internal weird libraries no one would willingly use ever even if pointed with a gun. If I propose to just use Rails for this and be done with it, I'd be declared and heretic and expulsed from the frontend team.

thirdlamp 6y ago
Without knowing your situation, that sounds like job security to me. "If we go the simple route I'm obsolete"
- runawaybottle 6y ago
  It’s not job security. It’s insecurity and peer pressure and identity validation usually with a sprinkling of adhd medication (surprise, we all know what that kind of code looks like) powering people through intense coding sessions where they over engineer things obsessively. I’m getting pretty sick of it myself.
- midrus 6y ago
  I think it is just the opposite. In my particular situation at work, if we go the simple route (it's just a 2 step CRUD wizard, so that'd be Rails/django/etc) other 5 people might be redundant. We need a team of 5 people to mantain this project (and a few smaller ones) because of the architecture (SPA + Go microservices) and the tools (React, rxjs, redux, data loaders, graphql, typescript safe actions whatever, an in-house-built crazy i18n system, custom webpack, some 10s of other open source libraries, and some other 10s of internal custom libraries). It's crazy. Really crazy.
gher-shyu3i 6y ago
I echo this. Currently working on CRUD app in golang. What an absolute mess and much slower than using established technologies.
- midrus 6y ago
  I don't blame the language tbh. I blame the frameworks and tools (or the lack of) for web development. Look, I love node and javascript. But I can't deny it is is total mistake to use it in a business context for web dev when you have django, rails or Laravel. Same for Go and many other trendy tools.... Reinventing the well is not a good business unless you're in the wheels business.
  - silexia 6y ago
    We have been using WordPress for 15 years and it's been wonderful and easy the whole time. Occasionally if a plug-in gets compromised, it's very easy to roll back and fix it. We now have a standard set of safe plugins anyways.
  - gher-shyu3i 6y ago
    The language is quite weak. It doesn't even have enums. I blame the industry who fell for golang's marketing and started shoving golang into places where it doesn't belong.
    - midrus 6y ago
      This. I've already stated it a lot. Go is great if you're building a CLI application, a DNS server, a database, some core infrastructure service, Kubernetes extensions/plugins, etc. But people learn it, get hyped, and want to use it for everything. So now we're spending months doing things that already exist in popular frameworks. Go is not for web development.You're not Google.
      - gher-shyu3i 6y ago
        I'd argue that golang's application is even less than what you mentioned. CLI app perhaps, and some simple use case here and there. Databases and infrastructure services need more expressive languages. I agree with you otherwise.
        6y ago
TheRealDunkirk 6y ago
Rails FTW. I’ve kept checking on other tools, but there’s no stack out there that is even on the same order of magnitude of productivity as Rails for doing simple LOB CRUD apps. Which, it turns out, is a LOT of apps. I think the problem is that there’s a common type of person drawn to programming which HATES being “told what to do” with Rails’ convention-over-configuration approach. Whatever. While they’re still writing wonderfully-typed class files in two different applications on the front and back ends, I’m done with my app, and writing the next one.
- hattori31 6y ago
  This. So much this. I miss rails after joining a huge company.

by midrus 6y ago

thirdlamp 6y ago

Without knowing your situation, that sounds like job security to me. "If we go the simple route I'm obsolete"

runawaybottle 6y ago
It’s not job security. It’s insecurity and peer pressure and identity validation usually with a sprinkling of adhd medication (surprise, we all know what that kind of code looks like) powering people through intense coding sessions where they over engineer things obsessively. I’m getting pretty sick of it myself.
midrus 6y ago
I think it is just the opposite. In my particular situation at work, if we go the simple route (it's just a 2 step CRUD wizard, so that'd be Rails/django/etc) other 5 people might be redundant. We need a team of 5 people to mantain this project (and a few smaller ones) because of the architecture (SPA + Go microservices) and the tools (React, rxjs, redux, data loaders, graphql, typescript safe actions whatever, an in-house-built crazy i18n system, custom webpack, some 10s of other open source libraries, and some other 10s of internal custom libraries). It's crazy. Really crazy.

gher-shyu3i 6y ago

I echo this. Currently working on CRUD app in golang. What an absolute mess and much slower than using established technologies.

midrus 6y ago
I don't blame the language tbh. I blame the frameworks and tools (or the lack of) for web development. Look, I love node and javascript. But I can't deny it is is total mistake to use it in a business context for web dev when you have django, rails or Laravel. Same for Go and many other trendy tools.... Reinventing the well is not a good business unless you're in the wheels business.
- silexia 6y ago
  We have been using WordPress for 15 years and it's been wonderful and easy the whole time. Occasionally if a plug-in gets compromised, it's very easy to roll back and fix it. We now have a standard set of safe plugins anyways.
- gher-shyu3i 6y ago
  The language is quite weak. It doesn't even have enums. I blame the industry who fell for golang's marketing and started shoving golang into places where it doesn't belong.
  - midrus 6y ago
    This. I've already stated it a lot. Go is great if you're building a CLI application, a DNS server, a database, some core infrastructure service, Kubernetes extensions/plugins, etc. But people learn it, get hyped, and want to use it for everything. So now we're spending months doing things that already exist in popular frameworks. Go is not for web development.You're not Google.
    - gher-shyu3i 6y ago
      I'd argue that golang's application is even less than what you mentioned. CLI app perhaps, and some simple use case here and there. Databases and infrastructure services need more expressive languages. I agree with you otherwise.
      - 6y ago

TheRealDunkirk 6y ago

Rails FTW. I’ve kept checking on other tools, but there’s no stack out there that is even on the same order of magnitude of productivity as Rails for doing simple LOB CRUD apps. Which, it turns out, is a LOT of apps. I think the problem is that there’s a common type of person drawn to programming which HATES being “told what to do” with Rails’ convention-over-configuration approach. Whatever. While they’re still writing wonderfully-typed class files in two different applications on the front and back ends, I’m done with my app, and writing the next one.

hattori31 6y ago
This. So much this. I miss rails after joining a huge company.