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This was the last straw for me, thats when I permabanned facebook from my life. This was an unauthorized, unguided, unethical, mass psychological experiment on

This was the last straw for me, thats when I permabanned facebook from my life. This was an unauthorized, unguided, unethical, mass psychological experiment on human beings. Anyone involved should have gone to jail for crimes against humanity.

jbverschoor 6y ago
luckily we don't have the dependency on fb anynmore, since nobody forces "login with facebook" anymore thesem days
neonological 6y ago
No it's not a crime against humanity, let's not go that far and let's not unreasonably promote cancel culture by burning the witch at the stake before giving the issue some deep thought. It's a much more complicated issue then you describe. Many corporate organizations have been selectively distributing information to deliberately influence sentiment for decades. Facebook is not the first nor will they be the last. Restricting any entity from doing this is a complicated issue that has to do with restricting freedom of speech. Fox news comes to mind when I think of another organization that does this deliberately. To add more complication to the issue one should consider the fact that the success of Fox news can also be attributed to it's customers: people. People choose what they want to hear, and many people prefer news viewed through a biased right leaning lens. Just like how the above poster wants to paint this issue as a crime against humanity, I think part of the problem is that on some level we all want to lie to ourselves. We want to view the world in a very specific and certain black and white way.
- xg15 6y ago
  Ok, so clandestine manipulation is freedom of speech. Is that what the founding fathers intended?
  - neonological 6y ago
    No but when you restrict clandestine manipulation you restrict freedom of speech. Giving the government such power gives them the oversight to use the "clandestine manipulation" excuse on other things as well. Like I said, not so clear cut. It's a complex world we live in. But I get why someone would vote me down. It's easier to see everything in terms of black and white. The truth, however, is grey. Take freedom of religion for example. Freedom of religion allows cults like Scientology to form. If we allow the government to have the power to eliminate Scientology what kind of power does it give the government over Christianity or Buddhism? Personally my view is that the cost is worth the benefit, because the alternative is much worse.
    - xg15 6y ago
      > Giving the government such power gives them the oversight to use the "clandestine manipulation" excuse on other things as well. Like for example? > Personally my view is that the cost is worth the benefit, because the alternative is much worse. A comfortable view if the cost is mainly paid by others.
      - neonological 6y ago
        Like for example you’re clandestinely manipulating me right now. Everything you say is manipulation of me towards your opinion. And you say it’s a cost paid by others? Can you give me an example of how I don’t pay the cost? Right you can’t because you didn’t know that I’m a user of Facebook. Logically it is impossible for you to know whether I “pay” for these costs or not. Basically without knowing who I am you made up a lie out of thin air. There is no other logic that can explain what you just said as you know nothing about me. Is lying in itself not clandestine manipulation? Are you not lying in attempt to clandestinely manipulate me and others reading this towards your opinion? You obviously have no skin in the game, you don’t even use Facebook, you’re just harping off about it because you don’t give a shit about freedom of speech at all. Is the paragraph above true or a manipulative lie? Did lying like that make you angry? What about that garbage lie you made up about me? Is this the same brainless response and fury everyone is reacting to Facebook “experimenting” on us without deeper consideration? Does me or you being angry about manipulative bullshit give either of us the right to clamp down on our right to say it? Should I have the right to call the police on you for making up shit and lying? No. And honestly outside of the context of “giving you an example” I suggest you check yourself. The drivel coming out of your mouth is deliberately offensive. “A cost paid by others” is an outright lie made up for the express purpose of manipulation and inciting anger. Emotional manipulation is no less evil then experimental manipulation. Careful what you do to your own freedom of speech rights... If you succeed, one day your ideas will be muzzling your own manipulative vitriol like a dog. Perhaps I can call out to dang, have him come over and moderate this thread. No let’s make it so that the government can moderate Facebook, which then in turn means they can moderate you. What do you think is the justification the CCP gives themselves when they moderate the entire internet in China? It’s the same justification you’ve given me, they seek to moderate clandestine manipulation.
mgraczyk 6y ago
The outcome of this experiment is that for a few days, around 150k people posted ~0.3% more negative words on Facebook. Is that something engineers and data scientists should be imprisoned over? I think most US politicians cause bigger effects every time they tweet.
- yeuxardents 6y ago
  Yes, is it known whether anyone affected committed suicide? Was that a part of the test, did they take that in to effect, did they ensure there were signals that if that could happen they would lay off the negativity for those people? Any psychology course at a University on ethics shows this is mass experimentation without proper oversight. I for one, do not believe that a bunch of twats in silicon valley give a crap about ethics, do you?
Google234 6y ago
Would you be happier if FB censored every negative post on their site? I’m sure there would be less unhappiness but would it be “better”?
- yeuxardents 6y ago
  Thats now what this is about.
hackinthebochs 6y ago
People keep using the words "psychological experiment" as if it proves the point. No, its just a more emotional description of what happened. Why, exactly, is controlled manipulation to gather scientific data require extra consent than doing random manipulation they already have consent for?
- yeuxardents 6y ago
  Because this is clearly altering emotional states. Is it known whether any individuals became more sad than others and committed suicide as a cause? No? Well thats because studies like this are required to go through IRB and review processes to ensure outcomes like that DO NOT HAPPEN. That did not happen here.

jbverschoor 6y ago

luckily we don't have the dependency on fb anynmore, since nobody forces "login with facebook" anymore thesem days

neonological 6y ago

No it's not a crime against humanity, let's not go that far and let's not unreasonably promote cancel culture by burning the witch at the stake before giving the issue some deep thought. It's a much more complicated issue then you describe. Many corporate organizations have been selectively distributing information to deliberately influence sentiment for decades. Facebook is not the first nor will they be the last. Restricting any entity from doing this is a complicated issue that has to do with restricting freedom of speech. Fox news comes to mind when I think of another organization that does this deliberately. To add more complication to the issue one should consider the fact that the success of Fox news can also be attributed to it's customers: people. People choose what they want to hear, and many people prefer news viewed through a biased right leaning lens. Just like how the above poster wants to paint this issue as a crime against humanity, I think part of the problem is that on some level we all want to lie to ourselves. We want to view the world in a very specific and certain black and white way.

xg15 6y ago
Ok, so clandestine manipulation is freedom of speech. Is that what the founding fathers intended?
- neonological 6y ago
  No but when you restrict clandestine manipulation you restrict freedom of speech. Giving the government such power gives them the oversight to use the "clandestine manipulation" excuse on other things as well. Like I said, not so clear cut. It's a complex world we live in. But I get why someone would vote me down. It's easier to see everything in terms of black and white. The truth, however, is grey. Take freedom of religion for example. Freedom of religion allows cults like Scientology to form. If we allow the government to have the power to eliminate Scientology what kind of power does it give the government over Christianity or Buddhism? Personally my view is that the cost is worth the benefit, because the alternative is much worse.
  - xg15 6y ago
    > Giving the government such power gives them the oversight to use the "clandestine manipulation" excuse on other things as well. Like for example? > Personally my view is that the cost is worth the benefit, because the alternative is much worse. A comfortable view if the cost is mainly paid by others.
    - neonological 6y ago
      Like for example you’re clandestinely manipulating me right now. Everything you say is manipulation of me towards your opinion. And you say it’s a cost paid by others? Can you give me an example of how I don’t pay the cost? Right you can’t because you didn’t know that I’m a user of Facebook. Logically it is impossible for you to know whether I “pay” for these costs or not. Basically without knowing who I am you made up a lie out of thin air. There is no other logic that can explain what you just said as you know nothing about me. Is lying in itself not clandestine manipulation? Are you not lying in attempt to clandestinely manipulate me and others reading this towards your opinion? You obviously have no skin in the game, you don’t even use Facebook, you’re just harping off about it because you don’t give a shit about freedom of speech at all. Is the paragraph above true or a manipulative lie? Did lying like that make you angry? What about that garbage lie you made up about me? Is this the same brainless response and fury everyone is reacting to Facebook “experimenting” on us without deeper consideration? Does me or you being angry about manipulative bullshit give either of us the right to clamp down on our right to say it? Should I have the right to call the police on you for making up shit and lying? No. And honestly outside of the context of “giving you an example” I suggest you check yourself. The drivel coming out of your mouth is deliberately offensive. “A cost paid by others” is an outright lie made up for the express purpose of manipulation and inciting anger. Emotional manipulation is no less evil then experimental manipulation. Careful what you do to your own freedom of speech rights... If you succeed, one day your ideas will be muzzling your own manipulative vitriol like a dog. Perhaps I can call out to dang, have him come over and moderate this thread. No let’s make it so that the government can moderate Facebook, which then in turn means they can moderate you. What do you think is the justification the CCP gives themselves when they moderate the entire internet in China? It’s the same justification you’ve given me, they seek to moderate clandestine manipulation.

mgraczyk 6y ago

The outcome of this experiment is that for a few days, around 150k people posted ~0.3% more negative words on Facebook. Is that something engineers and data scientists should be imprisoned over? I think most US politicians cause bigger effects every time they tweet.

yeuxardents 6y ago
Yes, is it known whether anyone affected committed suicide? Was that a part of the test, did they take that in to effect, did they ensure there were signals that if that could happen they would lay off the negativity for those people? Any psychology course at a University on ethics shows this is mass experimentation without proper oversight. I for one, do not believe that a bunch of twats in silicon valley give a crap about ethics, do you?

Google234 6y ago

Would you be happier if FB censored every negative post on their site? I’m sure there would be less unhappiness but would it be “better”?

yeuxardents 6y ago
Thats now what this is about.

hackinthebochs 6y ago

People keep using the words "psychological experiment" as if it proves the point. No, its just a more emotional description of what happened. Why, exactly, is controlled manipulation to gather scientific data require extra consent than doing random manipulation they already have consent for?

yeuxardents 6y ago
Because this is clearly altering emotional states. Is it known whether any individuals became more sad than others and committed suicide as a cause? No? Well thats because studies like this are required to go through IRB and review processes to ensure outcomes like that DO NOT HAPPEN. That did not happen here.