11 ms·

As an individual what can I do to most effectively stop this bullshit? The constant overreach and expansion of IP law disastrous for humans. I want it to stop.

As an individual what can I do to most effectively stop this bullshit? The constant overreach and expansion of IP law disastrous for humans. I want it to stop. Who do I donate to? Where do I march? I want to effect real change. I'm increasingly uncomfortable keeping my head down about this. It needs to be addressed, this concern needs to be signal-boosted somehow among the majority of people who just don't fucking give a shit. People shouldn't be okay with this. Most people are completely oblivious to the second and third order effects that are hurting them as a result of the INSANE IP laws that are on the books now. Is there any hope for real change? I'm ready to start donating some double digit percentage of my income for a start. My time too.

alfl 5y ago
I would usually recommend OpenMedia.ca but they seem not to have a position paper up on this yet. Still, I am bugging them about this and assuming they’ll take action.
- Fogest 5y ago
  They usually have been pretty opposed to this kind of stuff in the past so I assume that will hold true for this case, especially considering their name "OpenMedia" kinda runs counter to this proposed change.
boomboomsubban 5y ago
The Green Party of Canada has a record of opposing such IP laws, I doubt throwing money at the major parties will change their stance unless you're secretly part of the Dave Thompson family. If you're opposed to switching party affiliation, the EFF is probably what you're looking for.
- errantspark 5y ago
  I'm a US national these days, but I'm speaking more generally here. I donate to the EFF and I've donated to OpenMedia.ca as well in response to the other comment and while I'm aware that every bit helps help I'm concerned it's not enough, and that these organizations aren't focused enough on fighting the evils of IP law. I guess I'm saying I'm increasingly sure that this is the hill I want to die on. I want to do more than just donate. I want to get something done. I am ready to let this issue live constantly in my head as more than something that makes me mad. I want to fix it. This needs to change. The narrative needs to change. P.S. Louis Rossman's campaign for the Right to Repair is probably a good place to toss some money. P.P.S. To be clear I don't think we should abolish IP law entirely, just turn down the volume like 70%.
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    I would still suggest the Green Party then. Neither of the major parties will try to change this unless we make it clear that we won't vote for them until their position on these issues change. Other options, scream at the void, or get rich enough to try and force Supreme Court cases.
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    >P.S. Louis Rossman's campaign for the Right to Repair is probably a good place to toss some money. Late P.S. This[1] demonstrates my point on backing such campaigns. The major parties applauded the Right to Repair's arguments, and then voted down the law as there were "too many questions." A campaign alone won't be enough to sway them. https://www.vice.com/en/article/wx8w7b/colorado-denied-its-citizens-the-right-to-repair-after-riveting-testimony https://www.vice.com/en/article/wx8w7b/colorado-denied-its-c...
    - ekianjo 5y ago
      The proposed law was very badly written no wonder it was voted down. You can check it for yourself its 11 pages instead of reading the biased vice coverage.
      - boomboomsubban 5y ago
        The law itself doesn't feature the legislature's response, which is what I take issue with.
- 542458 5y ago
  Unfortunately, the greens also oppose GMOs, fluoride and wifi, and flirt with all sorts of other pseudoscience... so empowering them is just trading one issue for another. https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/elizabeth-mays-so-called-party-of-science-seems-to-support-a-lot-of-unscientific-public-policies https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/elizabeth-mays-so-cal...
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    I don't claim to be an expert on the Green Party of Canada, but searching their site shows they haven't discussed fluoride in over a decade, suggesting their policy has shifted. Additionally, searching "WiFi" shows May clarifying her position was that there was a lack of evidence on the subject and it wasn't a Green Party priority years before your (frankly ancient) article was written.
ToniCipriani 5y ago
IP laws is one thing, but such systems are rarely well implemented and almost always subject to abuse. Remember how the Verge tried to use YouTube copyright strikes to silence criticism of their horrible PC build video.
brighton36 5y ago
I'm increasingly sure we'll need to drop out of society, in order to fix it. Just walk away from the city, find a place (maybe outside the USA/Canada) and work on building a village with it's own spirit, and without the federal charters intruding. If you're not inclined to make that sacrifice, then, I think the beatings will continue.
- errantspark 5y ago
  I live almost entirely off grid. I do my absolute best not to participate, I'm out here using FOSS sw/hw when I can and rolling my own when I can't because I don't want to give power and money to people who even tacitly support this garbage system. I have a god damn linux phone. It's not enough and it feels selfish. Not everyone can live the life I am and I am not comfortable with it. I feel a moral responsibility to do more.
hypertele-Xii 5y ago
The Pirate Party of Canada [1] is your local branch of the worldwide Pirate Party movement. They are your people. Start there. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party_of_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party_of_Canada
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  Deregistered in 2017, part of the reason I suggested the Green Party.
  - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
    Whoops, should've read the article!
tomComb 5y ago
For one thing, I suggest following and disseminating Micheal Geist, who is a prof at u of Ottawa and had a long history as a voice of reason and resistance on such topics, including this specific one. https://g.co/kgs/5gqwwr https://g.co/kgs/5gqwwr I've also noticed Andrew Coyne of the Globe pointing out the crazy in recent federal internet proposals.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
The copyright industry is worth billions and billions of dollars. Their lobbying power is insane. Plus they have the USA on their side pushing their intellectual property laws on every country on Earth via trade agreements. Seriously doubt we're gonna beat them at this game. Our best bet is to create technology they cannot block. Make it impossible for them to enforce their ridiculous laws. Decentralized, anonymous networks that everyone can use to communicate. If we can send arbitrary data to each other freely and without fear of consequences, their little data monopolies and regulations won't matter. The idea is to increase the government tyranny necessary to enforce laws we don't agree with. We'll eventually find their limits.
- cortesoft 5y ago
  I want to agree with you, but I worry about the long term effect of this. If we don't fight the laws and just use technology to prevent enforcement, they are going to continue to push for more and more draconian laws to enforce their copyright... they will point to these technological bypasses and say "they are breaking the law! We must stop them"... and if the tech can't be stopped without outlawing general purpose computing, they might outlaw general purpose computing before they admit defeat. Yes, develop technology that is censorship resistant, but we ALSO need to fight for more sane copyright rules.
  - matheusmoreira 5y ago
    You're absolutely right. I always support any effort to fight these laws. I just don't think they're likely to succeed. > we ALSO need to fight for more sane copyright rules I don't think there will ever be "sane" copyright rules. Copyright itself is insane. It was sane before computers existed. Back then you had to be a major industry player in order to infringe copyright at scale. You had to own things like printing presses. Now copying data is trivial. All software has access to a memcpy function. All you need to do to copy files is hold down Ctrl + V until your hard drive is completely filled with copies. It's trivial to send these copies to anyone over the internet or sneakernet. Copyright is insane and utterly incompatible with the era of information and computers. I hope it's abolished within my lifetime. > and if the tech can't be stopped without outlawing general purpose computing, they might outlaw general purpose computing before they admit defeat This is a given in my opinion. The copyright battle is really a battle for computing freedom. It's our computers, if we want to copy data it's our choice and nobody cares about some made up copyright monopoly. The computer obeys us. The only way they can possibly enforce copyright is by making it so computers obey them instead. This will destroy free software and free computing as we know it today. I'd rather the entire copyright industry goes bankrupt than lose that. It's not just copyright either. Governments the world over have an obvious interest in controlling computers because of cryptography. It used to be a military tool and because of computers it became democratized, widely available and used by every citizen. Cryptography can defeat governments, militaries, judges... It's subversive technology. They think it's too powerful for mere citizens to have access to.
loceng 5y ago
You'll likely love my eventual plans to take a multi-angle stand against such industrial complexes; I describe part of the ideas in rough form in my comment here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26822283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26822283 Email me matt@engn.com if interested in discussing larger plans. Forgive if I take awhile to respond, I have to deal with severe chronic pain, so that slows me down quite a lot - a few solutions on the horizon though, so hopefully at some point I won't have that burden slowing me down. Re: from another comment if yours, " guess I'm saying I'm increasingly sure that this is the hill I want to die on. I want to do more than just donate. I want to get something done. I am ready to let this issue live constantly in my head as more than something that makes me mad. I want to fix it. This needs to change. The narrative needs to change." - Maybe you can be helpful just in giving me a sounding board to give feedback as to what's not clear enough, etc. There's a whole ecosystem I want to develop, its different layers, along with educating about government policy to propose.
hosteur 5y ago
The pirate party?
0x5f3759df-i 5y ago
The article links the Canadian government website for public consultation of these changes [1] If you scroll down to the conclusion [2] there is an email address that you can email your comments to. Be aware that these comments will be made public. [1] https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/693.nsf/eng/00191.html https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/693.nsf/eng/00191.html [2] https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/693.nsf/eng/00191.html#s5 https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/693.nsf/eng/00191.html#s5
lawnchair_larry 5y ago
What IP laws do you consider insane?
- throwaway2048 5y ago
  I'm certain this attempt to litigate why/if IP laws suck from scratch will be fruitful and informative.

alfl 5y ago

I would usually recommend OpenMedia.ca but they seem not to have a position paper up on this yet. Still, I am bugging them about this and assuming they’ll take action.

Fogest 5y ago
They usually have been pretty opposed to this kind of stuff in the past so I assume that will hold true for this case, especially considering their name "OpenMedia" kinda runs counter to this proposed change.

boomboomsubban 5y ago

The Green Party of Canada has a record of opposing such IP laws, I doubt throwing money at the major parties will change their stance unless you're secretly part of the Dave Thompson family. If you're opposed to switching party affiliation, the EFF is probably what you're looking for.

errantspark 5y ago
I'm a US national these days, but I'm speaking more generally here. I donate to the EFF and I've donated to OpenMedia.ca as well in response to the other comment and while I'm aware that every bit helps help I'm concerned it's not enough, and that these organizations aren't focused enough on fighting the evils of IP law. I guess I'm saying I'm increasingly sure that this is the hill I want to die on. I want to do more than just donate. I want to get something done. I am ready to let this issue live constantly in my head as more than something that makes me mad. I want to fix it. This needs to change. The narrative needs to change. P.S. Louis Rossman's campaign for the Right to Repair is probably a good place to toss some money. P.P.S. To be clear I don't think we should abolish IP law entirely, just turn down the volume like 70%.
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  I would still suggest the Green Party then. Neither of the major parties will try to change this unless we make it clear that we won't vote for them until their position on these issues change. Other options, scream at the void, or get rich enough to try and force Supreme Court cases.
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  >P.S. Louis Rossman's campaign for the Right to Repair is probably a good place to toss some money. Late P.S. This[1] demonstrates my point on backing such campaigns. The major parties applauded the Right to Repair's arguments, and then voted down the law as there were "too many questions." A campaign alone won't be enough to sway them. https://www.vice.com/en/article/wx8w7b/colorado-denied-its-citizens-the-right-to-repair-after-riveting-testimony https://www.vice.com/en/article/wx8w7b/colorado-denied-its-c...
  - ekianjo 5y ago
    The proposed law was very badly written no wonder it was voted down. You can check it for yourself its 11 pages instead of reading the biased vice coverage.
    - boomboomsubban 5y ago
      The law itself doesn't feature the legislature's response, which is what I take issue with.
542458 5y ago
Unfortunately, the greens also oppose GMOs, fluoride and wifi, and flirt with all sorts of other pseudoscience... so empowering them is just trading one issue for another. https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/elizabeth-mays-so-called-party-of-science-seems-to-support-a-lot-of-unscientific-public-policies https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/elizabeth-mays-so-cal...
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  I don't claim to be an expert on the Green Party of Canada, but searching their site shows they haven't discussed fluoride in over a decade, suggesting their policy has shifted. Additionally, searching "WiFi" shows May clarifying her position was that there was a lack of evidence on the subject and it wasn't a Green Party priority years before your (frankly ancient) article was written.

ToniCipriani 5y ago

IP laws is one thing, but such systems are rarely well implemented and almost always subject to abuse. Remember how the Verge tried to use YouTube copyright strikes to silence criticism of their horrible PC build video.

brighton36 5y ago

I'm increasingly sure we'll need to drop out of society, in order to fix it. Just walk away from the city, find a place (maybe outside the USA/Canada) and work on building a village with it's own spirit, and without the federal charters intruding. If you're not inclined to make that sacrifice, then, I think the beatings will continue.

errantspark 5y ago
I live almost entirely off grid. I do my absolute best not to participate, I'm out here using FOSS sw/hw when I can and rolling my own when I can't because I don't want to give power and money to people who even tacitly support this garbage system. I have a god damn linux phone. It's not enough and it feels selfish. Not everyone can live the life I am and I am not comfortable with it. I feel a moral responsibility to do more.

hypertele-Xii 5y ago

The Pirate Party of Canada [1] is your local branch of the worldwide Pirate Party movement. They are your people. Start there. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party_of_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party_of_Canada

boomboomsubban 5y ago
Deregistered in 2017, part of the reason I suggested the Green Party.
- hypertele-Xii 5y ago
  Whoops, should've read the article!

tomComb 5y ago

For one thing, I suggest following and disseminating Micheal Geist, who is a prof at u of Ottawa and had a long history as a voice of reason and resistance on such topics, including this specific one. https://g.co/kgs/5gqwwr https://g.co/kgs/5gqwwr I've also noticed Andrew Coyne of the Globe pointing out the crazy in recent federal internet proposals.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

The copyright industry is worth billions and billions of dollars. Their lobbying power is insane. Plus they have the USA on their side pushing their intellectual property laws on every country on Earth via trade agreements. Seriously doubt we're gonna beat them at this game. Our best bet is to create technology they cannot block. Make it impossible for them to enforce their ridiculous laws. Decentralized, anonymous networks that everyone can use to communicate. If we can send arbitrary data to each other freely and without fear of consequences, their little data monopolies and regulations won't matter. The idea is to increase the government tyranny necessary to enforce laws we don't agree with. We'll eventually find their limits.

cortesoft 5y ago
I want to agree with you, but I worry about the long term effect of this. If we don't fight the laws and just use technology to prevent enforcement, they are going to continue to push for more and more draconian laws to enforce their copyright... they will point to these technological bypasses and say "they are breaking the law! We must stop them"... and if the tech can't be stopped without outlawing general purpose computing, they might outlaw general purpose computing before they admit defeat. Yes, develop technology that is censorship resistant, but we ALSO need to fight for more sane copyright rules.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  You're absolutely right. I always support any effort to fight these laws. I just don't think they're likely to succeed. > we ALSO need to fight for more sane copyright rules I don't think there will ever be "sane" copyright rules. Copyright itself is insane. It was sane before computers existed. Back then you had to be a major industry player in order to infringe copyright at scale. You had to own things like printing presses. Now copying data is trivial. All software has access to a memcpy function. All you need to do to copy files is hold down Ctrl + V until your hard drive is completely filled with copies. It's trivial to send these copies to anyone over the internet or sneakernet. Copyright is insane and utterly incompatible with the era of information and computers. I hope it's abolished within my lifetime. > and if the tech can't be stopped without outlawing general purpose computing, they might outlaw general purpose computing before they admit defeat This is a given in my opinion. The copyright battle is really a battle for computing freedom. It's our computers, if we want to copy data it's our choice and nobody cares about some made up copyright monopoly. The computer obeys us. The only way they can possibly enforce copyright is by making it so computers obey them instead. This will destroy free software and free computing as we know it today. I'd rather the entire copyright industry goes bankrupt than lose that. It's not just copyright either. Governments the world over have an obvious interest in controlling computers because of cryptography. It used to be a military tool and because of computers it became democratized, widely available and used by every citizen. Cryptography can defeat governments, militaries, judges... It's subversive technology. They think it's too powerful for mere citizens to have access to.

loceng 5y ago

You'll likely love my eventual plans to take a multi-angle stand against such industrial complexes; I describe part of the ideas in rough form in my comment here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26822283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26822283 Email me matt@engn.com if interested in discussing larger plans. Forgive if I take awhile to respond, I have to deal with severe chronic pain, so that slows me down quite a lot - a few solutions on the horizon though, so hopefully at some point I won't have that burden slowing me down. Re: from another comment if yours, " guess I'm saying I'm increasingly sure that this is the hill I want to die on. I want to do more than just donate. I want to get something done. I am ready to let this issue live constantly in my head as more than something that makes me mad. I want to fix it. This needs to change. The narrative needs to change." - Maybe you can be helpful just in giving me a sounding board to give feedback as to what's not clear enough, etc. There's a whole ecosystem I want to develop, its different layers, along with educating about government policy to propose.

hosteur 5y ago

The pirate party?

0x5f3759df-i 5y ago

The article links the Canadian government website for public consultation of these changes [1] If you scroll down to the conclusion [2] there is an email address that you can email your comments to. Be aware that these comments will be made public. [1] https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/693.nsf/eng/00191.html https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/693.nsf/eng/00191.html [2] https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/693.nsf/eng/00191.html#s5 https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/693.nsf/eng/00191.html#s5

lawnchair_larry 5y ago

What IP laws do you consider insane?

throwaway2048 5y ago
I'm certain this attempt to litigate why/if IP laws suck from scratch will be fruitful and informative.