5 ms·

'Conscientiousness' and 'Grit' I think are different attributes. Conscientious people are like your 'nice Grandparents': they are consistent, orderly, pay thei

by jariel 5y ago

'Conscientiousness' and 'Grit' I think are different attributes. Conscientious people are like your 'nice Grandparents': they are consistent, orderly, pay their bills, are pleasant, predictable, file their taxes, recycle, don't steal. Gritty people are those who mount the psychological effort necessary to take on a challenging problem, and have the wherewithal to keep going when things get rough. To me the bit of confusion might arise between: 'Grit' and 'stubbornness' i.e. continue down an actually bad path and 'Grit' and 'Lack of Self Awareness' i.e. people utterly underestimating their ability, or the complexity of a domain. 'Fake it tell you make it' is actually a helpful characteristic in some areas, but in others it's not. I do believe that 'grit' and 'conscientiousness' are both positive attributes in people who start companies, but that 'conscientiousness' is probably a more important attributes in most of the employees. From the article: "Conscientiousness was twice as useful at predicting success as grit was." I have no doubt it's a better predictor for general life outcomes and especially academic outcomes. Doing a degree is mostly a grind.

fighterpilot 5y ago
Grit sounds like a strict subset of conscientiousness. I find it indistinguishable to the industriousness aspect of conscientiousness (and unrelated to the orderliness aspect). I wonder if they can point to any concrete differences between grit and conscientiousness-industriousness in terms of definition?
- jariel 5y ago
  I've literally just explained the difference to you. From Google: "Grit is the perseverance and passion to achieve long–term goals. Sometimes you will hear grit referred to as mental toughness." "Conscientiousness is the personality trait of being careful, or diligent. Conscientiousness implies a desire to do a task well, and to take obligations to others seriously. Conscientious people tend to be efficient and organized as opposed to easy-going and disorderly." They are not the same thing, though obviously the characteristics overlap. People in creative disciplines can have 'high grit' but often very low conscientiousness and be successful. As someone exposed a little bit to the music industry, I'm amazed by the level of determination people have in the face of rejection, and and at the same time, a lot of careless, inconsistent and risky behaviours in their life. Hard drug use, unstable relationships etc. - those are all 'low conscientious' things. But grit off the scale. Tons of people are 'highly conscientious' and have little grit. Your bus driver, 12 year vet, never missed work? Probably highly conscientious, and likely low on grit. In fact, most working class people doing thoughtful and diligent, consistent work, but who have no greater goals or ambitions and avoid risk are probably low in grit.
  - fighterpilot 5y ago
    You explained the difference between the broad google definitions but that doesn't change my point that grit seems to be a strict subset of the actual definition conscientiousness which includes not only orderliness (which we both agree is unrelated to grit) but other things like achievement striving and industriousness (which appear to me to be the same thing as grit). You could have an artist that's low in orderliness but high in industriousness or high in achievement striving. Does grit add anything novel beyond these existing facets of conscientiousness?
    - jariel 5y ago
      "doesn't change my point that grit seems to be a strict subset of the actual definition conscientiousness w" Yes, I think it quite clearly does. By definition (chose your own source, that's fine) and example, they are different things.

by jariel 5y ago

fighterpilot 5y ago

Grit sounds like a strict subset of conscientiousness. I find it indistinguishable to the industriousness aspect of conscientiousness (and unrelated to the orderliness aspect). I wonder if they can point to any concrete differences between grit and conscientiousness-industriousness in terms of definition?

jariel 5y ago
I've literally just explained the difference to you. From Google: "Grit is the perseverance and passion to achieve long–term goals. Sometimes you will hear grit referred to as mental toughness." "Conscientiousness is the personality trait of being careful, or diligent. Conscientiousness implies a desire to do a task well, and to take obligations to others seriously. Conscientious people tend to be efficient and organized as opposed to easy-going and disorderly." They are not the same thing, though obviously the characteristics overlap. People in creative disciplines can have 'high grit' but often very low conscientiousness and be successful. As someone exposed a little bit to the music industry, I'm amazed by the level of determination people have in the face of rejection, and and at the same time, a lot of careless, inconsistent and risky behaviours in their life. Hard drug use, unstable relationships etc. - those are all 'low conscientious' things. But grit off the scale. Tons of people are 'highly conscientious' and have little grit. Your bus driver, 12 year vet, never missed work? Probably highly conscientious, and likely low on grit. In fact, most working class people doing thoughtful and diligent, consistent work, but who have no greater goals or ambitions and avoid risk are probably low in grit.
- fighterpilot 5y ago
  You explained the difference between the broad google definitions but that doesn't change my point that grit seems to be a strict subset of the actual definition conscientiousness which includes not only orderliness (which we both agree is unrelated to grit) but other things like achievement striving and industriousness (which appear to me to be the same thing as grit). You could have an artist that's low in orderliness but high in industriousness or high in achievement striving. Does grit add anything novel beyond these existing facets of conscientiousness?
  - jariel 5y ago
    "doesn't change my point that grit seems to be a strict subset of the actual definition conscientiousness w" Yes, I think it quite clearly does. By definition (chose your own source, that's fine) and example, they are different things.