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The fight for status among males will never end. It took me decades to chat in bars about things I have a lot of detailed knowledge about. Learning to listen

The fight for status among males will never end. It took me decades to chat in bars about things I have a lot of detailed knowledge about. Learning to listen to stories and not automatically correct took some time. Nobody loves a pedant.

vmception 6y ago
> Nobody loves a pedant. I’ve taken it a step further and play along with spiritual and astrology talk from women. About 2/3rds of guys and 1/3rd of other women act very confused that I’m not immediately denigrating the person talking about signs and dietary restrictions. Turns out all you have to do is not do that, and a lot of things open up with very visually attractive people. Yeah, I’ll talk about higher vibrations with the fun lean vegan woman. They're used to people pedantically challenging their belief system, but many can amplify their interest in you if you simply don't do that.
- lupire 6y ago
  How about just being a decent human being instead a creepy pickup artist?
  - vmception 6y ago
    I don't mind that belief system, and I'm actually advocating for people to not denigrate or lecture people that talk about astrology. The bar shouldn't be so low. I'm pretty sure this is being a decent human being, you're assuming a lot for a reason beyond me. I would still use the term play along because it is accurate.
  - mcphage 6y ago
    Are the only 2 kinds of people “creepy pickup artist” and “asshole”?
Guthur 6y ago
Maybe because generally men have a lot of trouble identifying their self worth in society, maybe because few people are actually that sympathetic to men and their struggle to find meaningful fulfillment within their lives. Every struggle is seen as a negative, some "toxic" side of masculinity that needs to be eradicated rather than embraced and understood. We are positively hostile to it. And somewhat strangely we also attack femininity, though in a less openly hostile manner, more killed with compassion. We seem to feel sorry for outward femininity which appears to be having the effect of pushing women towards a more masculine outlook. I feel we no longer adore femininity like we once did. Some may argue that this is all for the best, and that we need to push us all to some more less defined state, but I'm not so sure that the cost in diversity is worth it.
- kingsuper20 6y ago
  This brings to mind Ted Kaczynski's manifesto in terms of the need for achievable, non-trivial goals and the inability of so-called 'surrogate' goals to really satisfy that need.
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    I love when people reference Kaczynski's work in serious discussions like this. Ted Kaczynski the domestic terrorist and murderer was not a person to be admired, but Ted Kaczynski the anarcho-primitivist philosopher is one of the most underrated and important intellectuals of the late 20th century. There's an awful lot packed into his manifesto, and I wish more people could see past his crimes in order to take that in. BTW, I found out he's updated the manifesto, and that it, along with some other of his works, was published in an anthology in 2010: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski#Other_works https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski#Other_works
- msrenee 6y ago
  I've definitely had my femininity attacked in an openly hostile manner. Often. When I was in junior high and high school, I thought women were the lesser sex and eschewed girly hobbies and clothing in favor of more masculine things. No dresses, no makeup, I cooked in order to eat, nothing fancy. I hung out with the guys and played video games. It wasn't until the last 5 years or so that I realized I could wear skirts out shopping and work a blue collar job during the week. I know masculinity is under attack in many circles, but it's quite the claim to say that femininity is less so.
wisty 6y ago
Is it really just a "fight for status among males"? If you don't correct someone, I only see two possibilities: 1. The topic is so worthless (to you) it doesn't matter if they're wrong. 2. They are so worthless (to you) it's not worth correcting them on an important topic. 2b. They lack the intelligence (IQ or EQ) to grow from being corrected. Of course, a some of the time this is right. Yes there's also a chance that you're wrong (in which case correcting them may result in you being corrected, or at least a potentially fruitful discussion), but the same would apply - is the topic and person worthwhile the chance of upsetting a thin-skinned idiot?
- solveit 6y ago
  1 is correct. Most times, the conversation has little to do with its purported subject. Instead, it's a long-winded ritual affirming friendship.

vmception 6y ago

> Nobody loves a pedant. I’ve taken it a step further and play along with spiritual and astrology talk from women. About 2/3rds of guys and 1/3rd of other women act very confused that I’m not immediately denigrating the person talking about signs and dietary restrictions. Turns out all you have to do is not do that, and a lot of things open up with very visually attractive people. Yeah, I’ll talk about higher vibrations with the fun lean vegan woman. They're used to people pedantically challenging their belief system, but many can amplify their interest in you if you simply don't do that.

lupire 6y ago
How about just being a decent human being instead a creepy pickup artist?
- vmception 6y ago
  I don't mind that belief system, and I'm actually advocating for people to not denigrate or lecture people that talk about astrology. The bar shouldn't be so low. I'm pretty sure this is being a decent human being, you're assuming a lot for a reason beyond me. I would still use the term play along because it is accurate.
- mcphage 6y ago
  Are the only 2 kinds of people “creepy pickup artist” and “asshole”?

Guthur 6y ago

Maybe because generally men have a lot of trouble identifying their self worth in society, maybe because few people are actually that sympathetic to men and their struggle to find meaningful fulfillment within their lives. Every struggle is seen as a negative, some "toxic" side of masculinity that needs to be eradicated rather than embraced and understood. We are positively hostile to it. And somewhat strangely we also attack femininity, though in a less openly hostile manner, more killed with compassion. We seem to feel sorry for outward femininity which appears to be having the effect of pushing women towards a more masculine outlook. I feel we no longer adore femininity like we once did. Some may argue that this is all for the best, and that we need to push us all to some more less defined state, but I'm not so sure that the cost in diversity is worth it.

kingsuper20 6y ago
This brings to mind Ted Kaczynski's manifesto in terms of the need for achievable, non-trivial goals and the inability of so-called 'surrogate' goals to really satisfy that need.
- pmiller2 6y ago
  I love when people reference Kaczynski's work in serious discussions like this. Ted Kaczynski the domestic terrorist and murderer was not a person to be admired, but Ted Kaczynski the anarcho-primitivist philosopher is one of the most underrated and important intellectuals of the late 20th century. There's an awful lot packed into his manifesto, and I wish more people could see past his crimes in order to take that in. BTW, I found out he's updated the manifesto, and that it, along with some other of his works, was published in an anthology in 2010: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski#Other_works https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski#Other_works
msrenee 6y ago
I've definitely had my femininity attacked in an openly hostile manner. Often. When I was in junior high and high school, I thought women were the lesser sex and eschewed girly hobbies and clothing in favor of more masculine things. No dresses, no makeup, I cooked in order to eat, nothing fancy. I hung out with the guys and played video games. It wasn't until the last 5 years or so that I realized I could wear skirts out shopping and work a blue collar job during the week. I know masculinity is under attack in many circles, but it's quite the claim to say that femininity is less so.

wisty 6y ago

Is it really just a "fight for status among males"? If you don't correct someone, I only see two possibilities: 1. The topic is so worthless (to you) it doesn't matter if they're wrong. 2. They are so worthless (to you) it's not worth correcting them on an important topic. 2b. They lack the intelligence (IQ or EQ) to grow from being corrected. Of course, a some of the time this is right. Yes there's also a chance that you're wrong (in which case correcting them may result in you being corrected, or at least a potentially fruitful discussion), but the same would apply - is the topic and person worthwhile the chance of upsetting a thin-skinned idiot?

solveit 6y ago
1 is correct. Most times, the conversation has little to do with its purported subject. Instead, it's a long-winded ritual affirming friendship.