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> Does that mean that all systems are compromised? No, because there are risks associated with tapping in to these systems. Partly it depends on if they have ac

> Does that mean that all systems are compromised? No, because there are risks associated with tapping in to these systems. Partly it depends on if they have access to the systems, but mostly on the possible blow-back if they get caught. Isn’t it common knowledge that the US and China is spying on everyone? The main difference is that China is not a military ally, and its government spying, which is unfettered, supports its private enterprise that is government financed and owned. US govt spying is unfettered. US corporate spying far more restricted because US businesses are bound by Federal and State laws, and it’s not centrally coordinated, instead US businesses are autonomous entities. And though US corporate spying on customers is rampant, it is also transparently written into usage contracts. US corporate spying is obviously for profit, and since the US and Europe are strategically tied through NATO, it’s not on the same threat level. China and its axis ally Russia, clearly bump up against the West because our political systems are fundamentally opposite, democratic vs autocratic. What this translates to is Chinese investors are agressively running around buying into key strategic businesses, advised by data gathering in coordination with its government, with a view to maintaining control, which reflects how the country is managed itself. American investors are running around buying/competing against business in coordination with data rich parent company entities, with a view to making money. But because it’s a democratic country where laws preserve autonomy even against the government, it’s a free for all and anyone can play, even Chinese owned American companies. Which is a reflection of how the US is managed itself. This is also how Europe is managed, so I do believe Chinese control of telcos is a bigger threat to Europe’s way of life.

whatshisface 6y ago
>China and its axis ally Russia, clearly bump up against the West because our political systems are fundamentally opposite, democratic vs autocratic. This is a speck of misapprehension that slipped in to your otherwise great writeup. Governments don't naturally conflict because they have different forms and they don't make automatic friends when they are similar. The US is presently allied with many autocracies. Middle-aged Europe was uniformly feudal, and constantly at war. Pre-WWII America was strictly isolationist and despite being a democracy had a fairly sized pro-Hitler element. Governments conflict when they have something to conflict over.
- riazrizvi 6y ago
  Well thank you. Yes I should learn to tighten up my comments, too many points. It’s a whole new discussion here that we could get into.
- buran77 6y ago
  The real reason superpowers clash is that they all want to be the dominant but there's only room for one at the top. The political or economic systems are absolutely irrelevant here. All that matters is what needs to be done to stay the dominant superpower. The closer the race, the lower they're all going to sink. US leadership fundamentally doesn't care about human rights abuses in China more than Chinese leadership cares about abuses against black people in the US. They don't care about bringing democracy in a country when their next move is to make sure "the right" leader is appointed. They don't care about freedom of speech when they can block it as needed under any pretense. And they don't care about any of the principles they advocate if those principles get in their way, they will all happily ally with someone embodying the exact thing they're fighting against if it server their interest of maintaining or growing their power. And getting to the point addressed above, they care about the image of the company they forced to introduce backdoors only as far as they can be punished by the bigger power, or if they can't sell it as fighting the terrorists (or scare word of the day). Case in point, Sweden and Ericsson wouldn't get away with it because their sphere of influence is a stone's throw away and the US would crucify them. China and Russia can mostly get away with it because their influence extends far enough that they have enough of a "friendly audience" for which they can sell a story. The US can get away with it everywhere else because even if Cisco is backdoored through and through, the US is the dominant superpower and is able to pressure allies to "see things" their way, and they can also sell everything as "the fight against ...". Superpowers see advancing their interests by any means as a matter of survival and this takes precedence over anything else. They'll do what needs to be done and deal with the fallout after. And if you live long enough to move through these different regimes you start seeing the pattern immediately, only thing that changes is the "feel good" story the people are served with.
  - lenkite 6y ago
    I prefer the "feel good" story of the US - ruled via democracy rather than the "feel good" story of China - ruled via an unelected communist bureaucracy. I suppose if you take a world-wide poll, most folks would agree with me.
eunos 6y ago
>China and its axis ally Russia, clearly bump up against the West because our political systems are fundamentally opposite, democratic vs autocratic. Laughable considering cordial relationship between US and Vietnam. The latter political system is basically a clone of China.
- mensetmanusman 6y ago
  It’s complicated: https://www.rand.org/blog/2020/05/reviewing-vietnams-struggle-options-in-the-south-china.html https://www.rand.org/blog/2020/05/reviewing-vietnams-struggl...
bingbong70 6y ago
>The main difference is that China is not a military ally, and its government spying, which is unfettered, supports its private enterprise that is government financed and owned. The main difference is that US law is exported to the rest of the world's population and Chinese law is not. If Julian Assange leaked Chinese intelligence/war-crime-evidence he would be at home raising his kids right now.

whatshisface 6y ago

>China and its axis ally Russia, clearly bump up against the West because our political systems are fundamentally opposite, democratic vs autocratic. This is a speck of misapprehension that slipped in to your otherwise great writeup. Governments don't naturally conflict because they have different forms and they don't make automatic friends when they are similar. The US is presently allied with many autocracies. Middle-aged Europe was uniformly feudal, and constantly at war. Pre-WWII America was strictly isolationist and despite being a democracy had a fairly sized pro-Hitler element. Governments conflict when they have something to conflict over.

riazrizvi 6y ago
Well thank you. Yes I should learn to tighten up my comments, too many points. It’s a whole new discussion here that we could get into.
buran77 6y ago
The real reason superpowers clash is that they all want to be the dominant but there's only room for one at the top. The political or economic systems are absolutely irrelevant here. All that matters is what needs to be done to stay the dominant superpower. The closer the race, the lower they're all going to sink. US leadership fundamentally doesn't care about human rights abuses in China more than Chinese leadership cares about abuses against black people in the US. They don't care about bringing democracy in a country when their next move is to make sure "the right" leader is appointed. They don't care about freedom of speech when they can block it as needed under any pretense. And they don't care about any of the principles they advocate if those principles get in their way, they will all happily ally with someone embodying the exact thing they're fighting against if it server their interest of maintaining or growing their power. And getting to the point addressed above, they care about the image of the company they forced to introduce backdoors only as far as they can be punished by the bigger power, or if they can't sell it as fighting the terrorists (or scare word of the day). Case in point, Sweden and Ericsson wouldn't get away with it because their sphere of influence is a stone's throw away and the US would crucify them. China and Russia can mostly get away with it because their influence extends far enough that they have enough of a "friendly audience" for which they can sell a story. The US can get away with it everywhere else because even if Cisco is backdoored through and through, the US is the dominant superpower and is able to pressure allies to "see things" their way, and they can also sell everything as "the fight against ...". Superpowers see advancing their interests by any means as a matter of survival and this takes precedence over anything else. They'll do what needs to be done and deal with the fallout after. And if you live long enough to move through these different regimes you start seeing the pattern immediately, only thing that changes is the "feel good" story the people are served with.
- lenkite 6y ago
  I prefer the "feel good" story of the US - ruled via democracy rather than the "feel good" story of China - ruled via an unelected communist bureaucracy. I suppose if you take a world-wide poll, most folks would agree with me.

eunos 6y ago

>China and its axis ally Russia, clearly bump up against the West because our political systems are fundamentally opposite, democratic vs autocratic. Laughable considering cordial relationship between US and Vietnam. The latter political system is basically a clone of China.

mensetmanusman 6y ago
It’s complicated: https://www.rand.org/blog/2020/05/reviewing-vietnams-struggle-options-in-the-south-china.html https://www.rand.org/blog/2020/05/reviewing-vietnams-struggl...

bingbong70 6y ago

>The main difference is that China is not a military ally, and its government spying, which is unfettered, supports its private enterprise that is government financed and owned. The main difference is that US law is exported to the rest of the world's population and Chinese law is not. If Julian Assange leaked Chinese intelligence/war-crime-evidence he would be at home raising his kids right now.