5 ms·

Is there proof of this or is this conjecture?

sneak 5y ago
Two examples we know of of the CIA assassinating Americans without trial or consequences: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulrahman_al-Awlaki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulrahman_al-Awlaki The potential murder of Gellman was stated by Snowden, who was trained by the CIA, and was stated on more than one occasion.
- opnitro 5y ago
  Also this, which wasn't directly the CIA but by CIA backed groups: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_Letelier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_Letelier, a political assassination on US soil. (Although not a US citizen)
  - selectodude 5y ago
    That's one heck of a leap to blame on the CIA.
    - opnitro 5y ago
      To quote the wikipedia article: A US State Department document made available by the National Security Archive on 10 April 2010 reveals that a démarche protesting Pinochet's Operation Condor assassination program was proposed and sent on 23 August 1976 to US diplomatic missions in Uruguay, Argentina, and Chile to be delivered to their host governments but later rescinded on 16 September 1976 by Henry Kissinger, following concerns raised by US ambassadors assigned there of both personal safety and a likely diplomatic contretemps. Five days later, the Letelier assassination took place.[8] Documents released in 2015 revealed a CIA report dated 28 April 1978, which showed that the agency by then had knowledge that Pinochet ordered the murders.[9] The report stated, "Contreras told a confidante he authorized the assassination of Letelier on orders from Pinochet."[9] A State Department document also referred to eight separate CIA reports from around the same date, each sourced to "extremely sensitive informants" who provided evidence of Pinochet's direct involvement in ordering the assassination and in directing the subsequent cover-up.[9] During the tenure of Richard Downie at the William J. Perry Center for Hemispheric Defense Studies, a U.S. Southern Command educational institution located at the National Defense University, the alleged (and as yet unproven) role of Jaime Garcia Covarrubias, a Chilean professor who was head of counterintelligence for DINA in the 1970s, in the torture and murder of seven detainees was revealed inside the center. His alleged role was first brought to Downie's attention in early 2008 by Center Assistant Professor Martin Edwin Andersen, a senior staff member who earlier, as a senior advisor for policy planning at the Criminal Division of the U.S. Department of Justice, was the first national security whistleblower to receive the U.S. Office of Special Counsel's "Public Servant Award."[10] In an October 1987 investigative report in The Nation, Andersen broke the story of how, in a June 1976 meeting in the Hotel Carrera in Santiago, Kissinger gave the bloody military junta in neighboring Argentina the "green light" for their own dirty "war."[11]
      - afrodc_ 5y ago
        I may not be reading this clearly, but how is the CIA involved in the assassination here? It seems like they had intel that it could happen but didn't order it, execute it or have any direct involvement.
- seppin 5y ago
  Killing self-identified enemies in a literal war zone is not the constitutional crisis you are implying. And as said, a "potential murder" isn't actually anything. Unless something happens, it's not something to cite.
- jayd16 5y ago
  The assertion was "the US military can and will assassinate US citizens engaging in constitutionally protected activity in the middle of Manhattan." It really diminishes your point when that is compared to an airstrike on foreign soil.
  - sneak 5y ago
    I don't really think the territorial claim on the land where the extrajudicial assassination happens is very relevant to the legal fact of the matter. We don't say that the FSB attempting to execute Skripal in a UK shopping mall doesn't count because it was in the UK. Murder is murder. The claim that the IC would assassinate Gellman in New York was made by someone who used to be an actual CIA operative and went through their training.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    It absolutely doesn't matter where it is. All that means is that the means of murder will change. Instead of being an airstrikes it might be someone off the street paid for the hit or an operative killing them or poisoning them. In both cases, you'd have no way to know. The only places you'd be able to know are in foreign countries where risks of capture and death are much higher and where investigations can't be silenced.

Two examples we know of of the CIA assassinating Americans without trial or consequences: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulrahman_al-Awlaki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulrahman_al-Awlaki The potential murder of Gellman was stated by Snowden, who was trained by the CIA, and was stated on more than one occasion.

opnitro 5y ago
Also this, which wasn't directly the CIA but by CIA backed groups: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_Letelier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_Letelier, a political assassination on US soil. (Although not a US citizen)
- selectodude 5y ago
  That's one heck of a leap to blame on the CIA.
  - opnitro 5y ago
    To quote the wikipedia article: A US State Department document made available by the National Security Archive on 10 April 2010 reveals that a démarche protesting Pinochet's Operation Condor assassination program was proposed and sent on 23 August 1976 to US diplomatic missions in Uruguay, Argentina, and Chile to be delivered to their host governments but later rescinded on 16 September 1976 by Henry Kissinger, following concerns raised by US ambassadors assigned there of both personal safety and a likely diplomatic contretemps. Five days later, the Letelier assassination took place.[8] Documents released in 2015 revealed a CIA report dated 28 April 1978, which showed that the agency by then had knowledge that Pinochet ordered the murders.[9] The report stated, "Contreras told a confidante he authorized the assassination of Letelier on orders from Pinochet."[9] A State Department document also referred to eight separate CIA reports from around the same date, each sourced to "extremely sensitive informants" who provided evidence of Pinochet's direct involvement in ordering the assassination and in directing the subsequent cover-up.[9] During the tenure of Richard Downie at the William J. Perry Center for Hemispheric Defense Studies, a U.S. Southern Command educational institution located at the National Defense University, the alleged (and as yet unproven) role of Jaime Garcia Covarrubias, a Chilean professor who was head of counterintelligence for DINA in the 1970s, in the torture and murder of seven detainees was revealed inside the center. His alleged role was first brought to Downie's attention in early 2008 by Center Assistant Professor Martin Edwin Andersen, a senior staff member who earlier, as a senior advisor for policy planning at the Criminal Division of the U.S. Department of Justice, was the first national security whistleblower to receive the U.S. Office of Special Counsel's "Public Servant Award."[10] In an October 1987 investigative report in The Nation, Andersen broke the story of how, in a June 1976 meeting in the Hotel Carrera in Santiago, Kissinger gave the bloody military junta in neighboring Argentina the "green light" for their own dirty "war."[11]
    - afrodc_ 5y ago
      I may not be reading this clearly, but how is the CIA involved in the assassination here? It seems like they had intel that it could happen but didn't order it, execute it or have any direct involvement.
seppin 5y ago
Killing self-identified enemies in a literal war zone is not the constitutional crisis you are implying. And as said, a "potential murder" isn't actually anything. Unless something happens, it's not something to cite.
jayd16 5y ago
The assertion was "the US military can and will assassinate US citizens engaging in constitutionally protected activity in the middle of Manhattan." It really diminishes your point when that is compared to an airstrike on foreign soil.
- sneak 5y ago
  I don't really think the territorial claim on the land where the extrajudicial assassination happens is very relevant to the legal fact of the matter. We don't say that the FSB attempting to execute Skripal in a UK shopping mall doesn't count because it was in the UK. Murder is murder. The claim that the IC would assassinate Gellman in New York was made by someone who used to be an actual CIA operative and went through their training.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  It absolutely doesn't matter where it is. All that means is that the means of murder will change. Instead of being an airstrikes it might be someone off the street paid for the hit or an operative killing them or poisoning them. In both cases, you'd have no way to know. The only places you'd be able to know are in foreign countries where risks of capture and death are much higher and where investigations can't be silenced.