3 ms·

To me, this sounds like "snake oil." Lipid pneumonia is a thing. Inhaling oils into your lungs is generally a bad idea.

dogma1138 6y ago
At what dosage does that become a problem? Vaping liquids are glycol and glycerine based and while they are probably not particularly healthy compared to not vaping at all they don’t seem to cause lipid pneumonia that often.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  The internet tells me glycerin is a component of oils but is, itself, miscible with water. The internet further tells me this means that, unlike oil, it mixes just fine with water. (People who know more chemistry than me: Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.) The problem with oils is it blocks air flow into the lungs, kind of like how you oil a leather canteen so it doesn't leak. I've had a nebulizer. They are hard as all hell to keep adequately clean to be safe to use and some people have made themselves sick using an inadequately clean nebulizer. (This is similar to vaping.) I've known a couple of people who had lipid pneumonia, one of whom had a serious respiratory condition, was hanging out on email lists where we were discussing home remedies and they got the bright idea that breathing in some oil or other would be totes a good idea for some damn reason. Yeah, that wasn't such a hot idea after all.
  - dogma1138 6y ago
    The question here is does this lipid actually cause pneumonia and if so at what dosage, if it can be relatively easily metabolized or otherwise cleared from the tissue it might not be an issue in the first place. Yes nebulizers are hard to keep clean but that’s because they are essentially a petri dish and people who use them already have compromised lungs and or immune system. I don’t think people who vape keep their ecigs especially clean and at scale it doesn’t seem to cause too many issues. I can see a lot of reasons why this might not end up being effective but jumping to pneumonia is a bit of a stretch tbh. If this lipid isn’t toxic at a medically effective dosage you can probably have a hygienic delivery mechanism like an inhaler instead of a nebulizer.
    - DoreenMichele 6y ago
      I don't vape. My knowledge of oil chemistry is on shaky ground and I've already deleted one comment because I blurted something out half remembered and was like "Wait. That's not actually correct." What I'm telling you is that glycerin is not a lipid, though it appears to be a building block of lipids. So glycerin being a basis for vaped products is irrelevant. My general understanding is any amount of oils going into the lungs is a bad idea. This is not about medicinal dosage. This is about mechanically blocking lung function.
gus_massa 6y ago
Oils and fat have one glycerin combined with 3 fatty acids, for example linoleic acid or other. The exact acids depends on the animal/plant that produce it and are very important to determine if it is solid or liquid, the melting temperature, if it's stable or get rancid, ... You can separate them and get glycerin again, and the fatty acid alone. You usually get a mix of fatty acids and it's essentially soap. (The properties of the depends on the mix of fatty acids that depends on the origin of the oil/fat you are using.) So this is more like inhaling soap than inhaling oil. (Soap usually has also Potassium mixed with the fatty acids, so it's not exactly equal.) (And the mix of fatty acids makes each soap different...) Anyway. Is this safe? Is this a good idea? I'm skeptic, but let's wait until the clinical trials have finished.
- DoreenMichele 6y ago
  Yeah, I'm not really trying to bust them. More like trying to suggest "Don't try inhaling oils at home as a DIY thing. It has a track record of landing people in the ER." I'm not a doctor, etc. I just have been discussing health stuff online a lot of years and I've seen people leap to conclusions that did not end well.
  - gus_massa 6y ago
    > Don't try inhaling oils at home as a DIY thing. Completely agree. Also, an additional problem is that sometimes people try substitutions like using linseed oil instead of linoleic acid, and it can be bad or very bad. (In particular if the linseed oil is for painting and have additives.) > I'm not really trying to bust them. I'm not so kind, and as I said before I'm very skeptic. But I can't find any theoretical reason to be sure this will not work or that this will work, so let's wait for the clinical trial results in case there is an unexpected surprise. (For example, with Chlorine Dioxide, it's almost impossible that it is useful because we know how it react.)
    - DoreenMichele 6y ago
      I'm skeptical as well. I think we are on the same page here.

At what dosage does that become a problem? Vaping liquids are glycol and glycerine based and while they are probably not particularly healthy compared to not vaping at all they don’t seem to cause lipid pneumonia that often.

DoreenMichele 6y ago
The internet tells me glycerin is a component of oils but is, itself, miscible with water. The internet further tells me this means that, unlike oil, it mixes just fine with water. (People who know more chemistry than me: Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.) The problem with oils is it blocks air flow into the lungs, kind of like how you oil a leather canteen so it doesn't leak. I've had a nebulizer. They are hard as all hell to keep adequately clean to be safe to use and some people have made themselves sick using an inadequately clean nebulizer. (This is similar to vaping.) I've known a couple of people who had lipid pneumonia, one of whom had a serious respiratory condition, was hanging out on email lists where we were discussing home remedies and they got the bright idea that breathing in some oil or other would be totes a good idea for some damn reason. Yeah, that wasn't such a hot idea after all.
- dogma1138 6y ago
  The question here is does this lipid actually cause pneumonia and if so at what dosage, if it can be relatively easily metabolized or otherwise cleared from the tissue it might not be an issue in the first place. Yes nebulizers are hard to keep clean but that’s because they are essentially a petri dish and people who use them already have compromised lungs and or immune system. I don’t think people who vape keep their ecigs especially clean and at scale it doesn’t seem to cause too many issues. I can see a lot of reasons why this might not end up being effective but jumping to pneumonia is a bit of a stretch tbh. If this lipid isn’t toxic at a medically effective dosage you can probably have a hygienic delivery mechanism like an inhaler instead of a nebulizer.
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    I don't vape. My knowledge of oil chemistry is on shaky ground and I've already deleted one comment because I blurted something out half remembered and was like "Wait. That's not actually correct." What I'm telling you is that glycerin is not a lipid, though it appears to be a building block of lipids. So glycerin being a basis for vaped products is irrelevant. My general understanding is any amount of oils going into the lungs is a bad idea. This is not about medicinal dosage. This is about mechanically blocking lung function.

gus_massa 6y ago

Oils and fat have one glycerin combined with 3 fatty acids, for example linoleic acid or other. The exact acids depends on the animal/plant that produce it and are very important to determine if it is solid or liquid, the melting temperature, if it's stable or get rancid, ... You can separate them and get glycerin again, and the fatty acid alone. You usually get a mix of fatty acids and it's essentially soap. (The properties of the depends on the mix of fatty acids that depends on the origin of the oil/fat you are using.) So this is more like inhaling soap than inhaling oil. (Soap usually has also Potassium mixed with the fatty acids, so it's not exactly equal.) (And the mix of fatty acids makes each soap different...) Anyway. Is this safe? Is this a good idea? I'm skeptic, but let's wait until the clinical trials have finished.

DoreenMichele 6y ago
Yeah, I'm not really trying to bust them. More like trying to suggest "Don't try inhaling oils at home as a DIY thing. It has a track record of landing people in the ER." I'm not a doctor, etc. I just have been discussing health stuff online a lot of years and I've seen people leap to conclusions that did not end well.
- gus_massa 6y ago
  > Don't try inhaling oils at home as a DIY thing. Completely agree. Also, an additional problem is that sometimes people try substitutions like using linseed oil instead of linoleic acid, and it can be bad or very bad. (In particular if the linseed oil is for painting and have additives.) > I'm not really trying to bust them. I'm not so kind, and as I said before I'm very skeptic. But I can't find any theoretical reason to be sure this will not work or that this will work, so let's wait for the clinical trial results in case there is an unexpected surprise. (For example, with Chlorine Dioxide, it's almost impossible that it is useful because we know how it react.)
  - DoreenMichele 6y ago
    I'm skeptical as well. I think we are on the same page here.