9 ms·

As mentioned in the epilogue regarding single monitors, I feel that Apple was a little too silent regarding that limitation. It also caught me off guard especi

As mentioned in the epilogue regarding single monitors, I feel that Apple was a little too silent regarding that limitation. It also caught me off guard especially as I purchased the LG 4K thunderbolt/usb-c monitors from the Apple website with the hope of connecting everything via daisy chain. I haven’t yet definitively found a DisplayLink hub that can output its video via thunderbolt and/or USB-C so whenever I see articles about M1’s and developer setups I happily check in to see if anybody has found a setup.

Closi 5y ago
Agreed, as an M1 user and usual multi monitor user this is a big limitation! Realistically I’ll look at investing in an ultra wide soon to offer similar screen real estate. We also have a Lenovo laptop that we bought two of for our admin staff in our office to only find out afterwards multi monitor support was missing (despite having enough ports for it)... it’s a shame that this isn’t considered standard.
- MobileVet 5y ago
  This was such a pain... we tried several combos and dongles. In the end we found this to work for driving the 2nd monitor. Startech Dual Display Port adapter https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C69HG33/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C69HG33/ We have noticed that the refresh rate on the second monitor isn’t great... but it works and isn’t horrible for developers. Edit: and we also have this due to the lack of ports (Thanks Jony) HyeperDrive USB C Hub https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MUAEI7J/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MUAEI7J/
  - waheoo 5y ago
    +1 for startech. Thunderbolt should be able to drive dual 4k at 60. Haven't used with the M1 but have with ThinkPads.
- rainbowzootsuit 5y ago
  Perhaps a EGPU via thunderbolt would work? (Not that GPUs are so readily available right now, but just to get N monitor ports as needed offloaded) Have you investigated that at all? I recently ran into something somewhat similar of needing "active" displayport adapters to connect more than two monitors at a time to a video card.
  - FroshKiller 5y ago
    M1 Macs do not support eGPUs.
    - rainbowzootsuit 5y ago
      Ah ok. Would be functional for the Lenovo presumably. Another possibility is a device that merges monitors' and then presents as one to the computer intended for video walls.. I know of the ones that Matrox makes but might need windows to setup. https://www.matrox.com/en/video/products/video-walls/quadhead2go-series/q185-appliance https://www.matrox.com/en/video/products/video-walls/quadhea...
- wslh 5y ago
  That is why I think Dell XPS 13 is top: three external monitors via a Thunderbolt TB16 and a desktop experience only plugging a single cable. This is not to say that the XPS 13 is perfect (need to change battery every two years in all the notebooks at the office and the notebook gets hot) but the notebook is great in many other factors.
  - dijit 5y ago
    FWIW (and, anecdotally); my company just started rolling out XPS 13's and had to stop as they are overheating constantly. Instead, people are going to be getting latitudes.
    - andrewmackrodt 5y ago
      I have the XPS 13 2-in-1 and the thermals under Windows leave a lot to be desired. It's possible to apply a small undervolt and increase the Intel turbo limits which significantly improves performance while being able to run with the balanced fan profile. If anyone wants my ThrottleStop config I can upload it to pastebin. I run Ubuntu day to day and it has much better performance and less fan noise (presumed better thermals) than Windows.
    - tinco 5y ago
      Our product has a webgl component, and the XPS13 would constantly crash Ubuntu when the webgl view was open. It was so unworkable the developer switched to windows with WSL2 just to have a stable environment. Which is annoying because the whole reason I was buying XPS laptops for our devs was supposedly good Linux support. Maybe the laptop was overheating?
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    I have given up on 13" laptops for performance demanding work, you just can't stuff cooling into that package.
misnome 5y ago
Yes, very silent. We ordered a replacement for my old work machine and only realised that limitation after - too slow to stop the purchase order. We’ve ordered an ultrawide monitor to compensate. I feel the “Pro” label is somewhat misleading, and has definitely damaged my trust further.
- FroshKiller 5y ago
  The specs page for the Pro on Apple's site was up front about this and still is. Check it out here: https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-13/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-13/specs/ Scroll down to Video Support and see: "One external display with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz." When I was making a buying decision back in November, the limited external display support came up in every analysis & review I read. I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, but I genuinely don't know how you missed this.
  - nsxwolf 5y ago
    A lot of people missed it. No one expects features to be removed from the latest and greatest model.
    - FroshKiller 5y ago
      No one expects a brand-new hardware platform to have different capabilities from other devices in its class?
      - numpad0 5y ago
        A lot of people weren’t aware that multiple displays through single DisplayPort connector is hardware, not software, capability
      - e-clinton 5y ago
        It’s not “brand new hardware”, it’s just another MacBook Pro. Being a MacBook Pro, I expect a keyboard, trackpad, screen... and the ability to plug-in monitors, just like every other MacBook Pros has for however many years. They shouldn’t have called it a pro.
Nextgrid 5y ago
If your objective is to use two monitors side by side, couldn't you find a device that presents itself as an ultra-wide monitor (combined width of both monitors) and allows you to connect two monitors on the other end?
- hpoe 5y ago
  Couldn't the newest generation of a device not remove what are considered standard features from their device especially when it costs more than anything on the market and it's big selling point is that it "just works"?
- MertsA 5y ago
  No, that'd be a problem with the dock and menu bar straddling the two monitors. Not to mention maximizing a window would split it between monitors.
aulin 5y ago
I suffered more about having to trash my perfectly fine fullhd monitor(s) that worked great with linux until the day before, just because they decided to drop subpixel hinting with latest macos versions. Now I need 5-6 times more pixels to get comparable font rendering
- eyelidlessness 5y ago
  I’m also still mourning the loss of subpixel AA with my primary display being 4k@1x. For several versions of macOS it was removed from the System Preferences UI but still available with a defaults command, but I’m pretty sure that’s gone now too.
  - aulin 5y ago
    right, you're not even supposed to use those 4k at native resolution if you want good fonts! some sources still list a couple of manual commands that supposedly enable antialiasing again but I don't think they do anything anymore.
    - eyelidlessness 5y ago
      It’s 43” haha. It has roughly the same pixel density as a 27” at 2560x1440.
    - ixacto 5y ago
      32” 4k on a m1 mini at a scaled resolution of 2560x1440 looks great.
      - eyelidlessness 5y ago
        I’d imagine that scaling feeling a bit large for many on HN, that’s the resolution Apple ships at 27”. But if you like it that’s great!
rvz 5y ago
> I feel that Apple was a little too silent regarding that limitation. That's the whole point. It's about what Apple doesn't tell you that matters, which I have said before [0]. Especially for a new product announcement and release, which is why I don't immediately buy their products because everyone else is hyping it everywhere. Now they are discovering the pitfalls and foot-guns later on after purchasing it, whilst I enjoy my trusty old Intel Macbook that can connect to more than one monitor. I guess when Apple announces a M1X / M2 Macbook, the reviewers will be telling you that 'It's not worth buying if you already bought into M1'. If that's the case, they are right, since you're now at a sunk cost IF you wanted multi-monitors on your M1 Macbook Air. What's better is that you wait for the next generation so that you don't fall for buying into Apple's limitations in their new products. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26327064 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26327064
- rgbrenner 5y ago
  They did tell us though. It’s listed on the tech specs: one monitor on the m1 laptops; 2 on the mini. That’s why I bought a mini.
- clashmoore 5y ago
  If I could describe why I've been an Apple laptop user since their Powerbook days, it's because I didn't want to worry about fiddly computer setups and stuff - just purchasing a machine that works and an afternoon to get my environment up and running (for dev). In all my previous experiences, purchasing into newly released products has always been a step forward in every measurement. I would say dongles have been the only pain points when moving to new generations. This is the first product that took a step back in an important way and I wasn't expecting it. And it doubly hurt me as Apple's website store suggested these LG 4k monitors to go along with my new M1 and their store showcased the awesome thunderbolt daisy chain and driver support out of the box. So while DisplayLink technologies do allow for an inferior multi-display setup - I haven't found one yet to drive dual LG 4k monitors that Apple sells.
mistersquid 5y ago
I understand the lack of multi-monitor support in the M1s is an issue. But just after the launch of the M1, I came across a video that demonstrated an M1 Mac mini driving six monitors. [0] There is also a short write up about that workaround, for those who don’t want the video. [1] There are similar workarounds for the M1 MacBoooks. [2] Is this a reasonable workaround until Apple provides M1 hardware that can run more than 1 monitor out of the box? [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jLAwSvs7vE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jLAwSvs7vE [1] https://www.slashgear.com/m1-macs-can-run-up-to-six-displays-with-a-workaround-24648713/ https://www.slashgear.com/m1-macs-can-run-up-to-six-displays... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzPKfn746Zs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzPKfn746Zs
- runjake 5y ago
  #2 is using a DisplayLink device to run multiple monitors. I presume the other videos do too. There's no trick or way around this on an M1-equipped Mac. Something else will be handling the graphics. DisplayLink generally works excellent for running most apps. It does not work well where you’re pushing a bunch of bits at the screen rapidly, eg. First person shooters or high definition video. That said, one of my DisplayLink monitors is used for IP camera feeds, and while the little traffic light on the USB dongle is blinking incredibly fast, I don’t notice any stutters. Everyone already knows about this and the author mentions this in their post.
- n42 5y ago
  DisplayLink is a software encoded and compressed video stream that the hardware dongle decompresses on display. The experience is not great on my M1 MacBook Air. Sometimes it doesn't work and I have to plug/unplug, DisplayLink doesn't support refresh rates higher than 60hz, and you have to keep their software running in my task bar for it to work, and there are occasional visual artifacts. If you're planning to use your M1 in a multi-monitor setup, I suggest waiting for Apple to support it natively, especially if you're doing any kind of design work. If you occassionally just want to plug in to multiple displays, it can bridge the gap. It's no substitute for a dedicated workstation.
- clashmoore 5y ago
  I've seen these too, but the LG 4k monitors that Apple sells on their website, and suggests as a display purchase along with the M1, have only Thunderbolt and USB-c IO. All these example setups use monitors with HDMI, etc.
hedgehog 5y ago
There are also compatibility issues with ultrawide monitors and DDC support is missing (so there's no way to do brightness or volume for external displays). The new machines are still better for most people but as always evaluate before upgrading.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Stratoscope 5y ago
I wonder if the single monitor limitation is a hardware or software issue? The reason I ask is that my ThinkPad X1 Extreme can only handle a single external monitor running any recent version of Ubuntu, but on Windows 10 I run it with two or three external monitors with different scaling factors. I've used either a ThinkPad Thunderbolt dock or currently a Cable Matters mini-dock with two DisplayPorts and one HDMI. So I gave up on Linux on the hardware and run it in a VMware VM under the Windows 10 host, or under WSL2 depending on what I'm doing.

Closi 5y ago

Agreed, as an M1 user and usual multi monitor user this is a big limitation! Realistically I’ll look at investing in an ultra wide soon to offer similar screen real estate. We also have a Lenovo laptop that we bought two of for our admin staff in our office to only find out afterwards multi monitor support was missing (despite having enough ports for it)... it’s a shame that this isn’t considered standard.

MobileVet 5y ago
This was such a pain... we tried several combos and dongles. In the end we found this to work for driving the 2nd monitor. Startech Dual Display Port adapter https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C69HG33/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C69HG33/ We have noticed that the refresh rate on the second monitor isn’t great... but it works and isn’t horrible for developers. Edit: and we also have this due to the lack of ports (Thanks Jony) HyeperDrive USB C Hub https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MUAEI7J/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MUAEI7J/
- waheoo 5y ago
  +1 for startech. Thunderbolt should be able to drive dual 4k at 60. Haven't used with the M1 but have with ThinkPads.
rainbowzootsuit 5y ago
Perhaps a EGPU via thunderbolt would work? (Not that GPUs are so readily available right now, but just to get N monitor ports as needed offloaded) Have you investigated that at all? I recently ran into something somewhat similar of needing "active" displayport adapters to connect more than two monitors at a time to a video card.
- FroshKiller 5y ago
  M1 Macs do not support eGPUs.
  - rainbowzootsuit 5y ago
    Ah ok. Would be functional for the Lenovo presumably. Another possibility is a device that merges monitors' and then presents as one to the computer intended for video walls.. I know of the ones that Matrox makes but might need windows to setup. https://www.matrox.com/en/video/products/video-walls/quadhead2go-series/q185-appliance https://www.matrox.com/en/video/products/video-walls/quadhea...
wslh 5y ago
That is why I think Dell XPS 13 is top: three external monitors via a Thunderbolt TB16 and a desktop experience only plugging a single cable. This is not to say that the XPS 13 is perfect (need to change battery every two years in all the notebooks at the office and the notebook gets hot) but the notebook is great in many other factors.
- dijit 5y ago
  FWIW (and, anecdotally); my company just started rolling out XPS 13's and had to stop as they are overheating constantly. Instead, people are going to be getting latitudes.
  - andrewmackrodt 5y ago
    I have the XPS 13 2-in-1 and the thermals under Windows leave a lot to be desired. It's possible to apply a small undervolt and increase the Intel turbo limits which significantly improves performance while being able to run with the balanced fan profile. If anyone wants my ThrottleStop config I can upload it to pastebin. I run Ubuntu day to day and it has much better performance and less fan noise (presumed better thermals) than Windows.
  - tinco 5y ago
    Our product has a webgl component, and the XPS13 would constantly crash Ubuntu when the webgl view was open. It was so unworkable the developer switched to windows with WSL2 just to have a stable environment. Which is annoying because the whole reason I was buying XPS laptops for our devs was supposedly good Linux support. Maybe the laptop was overheating?
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  I have given up on 13" laptops for performance demanding work, you just can't stuff cooling into that package.

misnome 5y ago

Yes, very silent. We ordered a replacement for my old work machine and only realised that limitation after - too slow to stop the purchase order. We’ve ordered an ultrawide monitor to compensate. I feel the “Pro” label is somewhat misleading, and has definitely damaged my trust further.

FroshKiller 5y ago
The specs page for the Pro on Apple's site was up front about this and still is. Check it out here: https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-13/specs/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-13/specs/ Scroll down to Video Support and see: "One external display with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz." When I was making a buying decision back in November, the limited external display support came up in every analysis & review I read. I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, but I genuinely don't know how you missed this.
- nsxwolf 5y ago
  A lot of people missed it. No one expects features to be removed from the latest and greatest model.
  - FroshKiller 5y ago
    No one expects a brand-new hardware platform to have different capabilities from other devices in its class?
    - numpad0 5y ago
      A lot of people weren’t aware that multiple displays through single DisplayPort connector is hardware, not software, capability
    - e-clinton 5y ago
      It’s not “brand new hardware”, it’s just another MacBook Pro. Being a MacBook Pro, I expect a keyboard, trackpad, screen... and the ability to plug-in monitors, just like every other MacBook Pros has for however many years. They shouldn’t have called it a pro.

Nextgrid 5y ago

If your objective is to use two monitors side by side, couldn't you find a device that presents itself as an ultra-wide monitor (combined width of both monitors) and allows you to connect two monitors on the other end?

hpoe 5y ago
Couldn't the newest generation of a device not remove what are considered standard features from their device especially when it costs more than anything on the market and it's big selling point is that it "just works"?
MertsA 5y ago
No, that'd be a problem with the dock and menu bar straddling the two monitors. Not to mention maximizing a window would split it between monitors.

aulin 5y ago

I suffered more about having to trash my perfectly fine fullhd monitor(s) that worked great with linux until the day before, just because they decided to drop subpixel hinting with latest macos versions. Now I need 5-6 times more pixels to get comparable font rendering

eyelidlessness 5y ago
I’m also still mourning the loss of subpixel AA with my primary display being 4k@1x. For several versions of macOS it was removed from the System Preferences UI but still available with a defaults command, but I’m pretty sure that’s gone now too.
- aulin 5y ago
  right, you're not even supposed to use those 4k at native resolution if you want good fonts! some sources still list a couple of manual commands that supposedly enable antialiasing again but I don't think they do anything anymore.
  - eyelidlessness 5y ago
    It’s 43” haha. It has roughly the same pixel density as a 27” at 2560x1440.
  - ixacto 5y ago
    32” 4k on a m1 mini at a scaled resolution of 2560x1440 looks great.
    - eyelidlessness 5y ago
      I’d imagine that scaling feeling a bit large for many on HN, that’s the resolution Apple ships at 27”. But if you like it that’s great!

rvz 5y ago

> I feel that Apple was a little too silent regarding that limitation. That's the whole point. It's about what Apple doesn't tell you that matters, which I have said before [0]. Especially for a new product announcement and release, which is why I don't immediately buy their products because everyone else is hyping it everywhere. Now they are discovering the pitfalls and foot-guns later on after purchasing it, whilst I enjoy my trusty old Intel Macbook that can connect to more than one monitor. I guess when Apple announces a M1X / M2 Macbook, the reviewers will be telling you that 'It's not worth buying if you already bought into M1'. If that's the case, they are right, since you're now at a sunk cost IF you wanted multi-monitors on your M1 Macbook Air. What's better is that you wait for the next generation so that you don't fall for buying into Apple's limitations in their new products. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26327064 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26327064

rgbrenner 5y ago
They did tell us though. It’s listed on the tech specs: one monitor on the m1 laptops; 2 on the mini. That’s why I bought a mini.
clashmoore 5y ago
If I could describe why I've been an Apple laptop user since their Powerbook days, it's because I didn't want to worry about fiddly computer setups and stuff - just purchasing a machine that works and an afternoon to get my environment up and running (for dev). In all my previous experiences, purchasing into newly released products has always been a step forward in every measurement. I would say dongles have been the only pain points when moving to new generations. This is the first product that took a step back in an important way and I wasn't expecting it. And it doubly hurt me as Apple's website store suggested these LG 4k monitors to go along with my new M1 and their store showcased the awesome thunderbolt daisy chain and driver support out of the box. So while DisplayLink technologies do allow for an inferior multi-display setup - I haven't found one yet to drive dual LG 4k monitors that Apple sells.

mistersquid 5y ago

I understand the lack of multi-monitor support in the M1s is an issue. But just after the launch of the M1, I came across a video that demonstrated an M1 Mac mini driving six monitors. [0] There is also a short write up about that workaround, for those who don’t want the video. [1] There are similar workarounds for the M1 MacBoooks. [2] Is this a reasonable workaround until Apple provides M1 hardware that can run more than 1 monitor out of the box? [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jLAwSvs7vE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jLAwSvs7vE [1] https://www.slashgear.com/m1-macs-can-run-up-to-six-displays-with-a-workaround-24648713/ https://www.slashgear.com/m1-macs-can-run-up-to-six-displays... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzPKfn746Zs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzPKfn746Zs

runjake 5y ago
#2 is using a DisplayLink device to run multiple monitors. I presume the other videos do too. There's no trick or way around this on an M1-equipped Mac. Something else will be handling the graphics. DisplayLink generally works excellent for running most apps. It does not work well where you’re pushing a bunch of bits at the screen rapidly, eg. First person shooters or high definition video. That said, one of my DisplayLink monitors is used for IP camera feeds, and while the little traffic light on the USB dongle is blinking incredibly fast, I don’t notice any stutters. Everyone already knows about this and the author mentions this in their post.
n42 5y ago
DisplayLink is a software encoded and compressed video stream that the hardware dongle decompresses on display. The experience is not great on my M1 MacBook Air. Sometimes it doesn't work and I have to plug/unplug, DisplayLink doesn't support refresh rates higher than 60hz, and you have to keep their software running in my task bar for it to work, and there are occasional visual artifacts. If you're planning to use your M1 in a multi-monitor setup, I suggest waiting for Apple to support it natively, especially if you're doing any kind of design work. If you occassionally just want to plug in to multiple displays, it can bridge the gap. It's no substitute for a dedicated workstation.
clashmoore 5y ago
I've seen these too, but the LG 4k monitors that Apple sells on their website, and suggests as a display purchase along with the M1, have only Thunderbolt and USB-c IO. All these example setups use monitors with HDMI, etc.

hedgehog 5y ago

There are also compatibility issues with ultrawide monitors and DDC support is missing (so there's no way to do brightness or volume for external displays). The new machines are still better for most people but as always evaluate before upgrading.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Stratoscope 5y ago

I wonder if the single monitor limitation is a hardware or software issue? The reason I ask is that my ThinkPad X1 Extreme can only handle a single external monitor running any recent version of Ubuntu, but on Windows 10 I run it with two or three external monitors with different scaling factors. I've used either a ThinkPad Thunderbolt dock or currently a Cable Matters mini-dock with two DisplayPorts and one HDMI. So I gave up on Linux on the hardware and run it in a VMware VM under the Windows 10 host, or under WSL2 depending on what I'm doing.