5 ms·

A lot of comments here about the price for older components. But people forget that these guys ( apparently ) spent time and research on figuring out the most s

A lot of comments here about the price for older components. But people forget that these guys ( apparently ) spent time and research on figuring out the most secure tech out there to build a laptop. And then probably paying extra to suppliers because of the old tech availability, lower amount of total orders, future RnD.... I mean, how dare they try to make some money, right?

m463 5y ago
I think they could always save/make money the traditional way: - reduce engineering costs by adding telemetry to make all your customers debug for you. - conveniently save all telemetry forever, just in case you can sell it for money. - pop-up advertising. I think those videos that play at the gas station would look good on the bootup screen. If the bootup is too short, then lock the desktop until it is finished. - take away features, then sell them back as upgrades. adjustable volume? $5
- unixhero 5y ago
  Get this man up into marketing at Oracle.
  - m463 5y ago
    - per-seat licensing for useradd - fortune command interstitials - busy-loot-box I don't think oracle equity will match my monetization, but maybe I can partner with them for an ogrep idea I've been mulling over.
- 74d-fe6-2c6 5y ago
  - preinstalling excellent software like McAffee for virus protection
  - unionpivo 5y ago
    I just vomited in my mouth a little
- 1timewonderacc 5y ago
  LOL if they do all what @m463 said, this Librem laptop won't be any different from what you buy anywhere else. Windows 10 junk anyone!? Telemetry!? WTF!
  - yissp 5y ago
    pretty sure the comment was made in jest
    - m463 5y ago
      Yes. :) I have an original librem 13. It is quite refreshing. No proprietary drivers, works with every linux distribution without fiddling (I run arch). wifi/bt+mic/camera switches. Barrel jack for power. standard screws, standard memory, standard m.2, standard ssd.
  - spicybright 5y ago
    woosh.
varispeed 5y ago
Bigger companies have lower price through high volume and often buying ready made designs from other companies - e.g. many laptops are essentially the same except they have slightly different shell, screen and other peripherals. The cost of creating a new design from scratch is enormous. It is understandable that small company would like to recover it, but also apply a margin high enough to have funds to work on future models. Don't forget that the cheap laptops also have factored in your data in their price (e.g. they come with malware and other software that assumes you will sign up and give up your privacy) - the GDPR largely applies only to websites and native applications don't seem to have the same T&C regarding privacy.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Okkef 5y ago
  You are completely off the mark with regards to gdpr. Gdpr is not only about websites. It is about how you can handle and store any personal data. Whether that's on the web or in your company address book.
Blikkentrekker 5y ago
I think most of the criticism is directed at those who would pay more for ideological, not practical freedom. Especially with hardware the definition of “freedom” is rather nonsensical such as that by the F.S.F.'s definition, which many follow, destroying a microcontroller such that r.w.-memory becomes r.o. can actually make hardware change from not-free into free. — removing functionality from the user to replace proprietary software with free software makes it freer based on the F.S.F's definition that read-only memory is not software, but hardware.
- rst 5y ago
  Not sure that's the sum total of Purism's case here. The hardware kill switches on the mic and network aren't something that everyone needs or wants, but people who do don't have a whole lot of ready-built options.
- crazypython 5y ago
  > r.w.-memory becomes r.o. can actually make hardware change from not-free into free. It's about equal rights. For instance, if the manufacturer can provide security updates, but you can't, they can notify the NSA about security holes first before providing the update. Whereas if it is r.w. for all, anyone can provide security updates.
  - Blikkentrekker 5y ago
    Not quite. In the F.S.F.'s definition, even if the manufacturer provided a full documentation of the hardware and thus an ability to write free drivers, but none had simply done so and it must thus be shipped with proprietary drivers, then making it r.o. renders the entire hardware “free”. In fact, a literal reading of the F.S.F.'s definition would make a computer with Windows on it, provided that it be burned into r.o. memory meet the terms of their Respects Your Freedom mark, though perhaps they would refuse in that case due to a clear violation of the spirit of the rules. The problem is that by the F.S.F.'s definition, one can sidestep it all by simply burning any proprietary software into r.o.m., as then it is hardware, not software. This paradox is the result of the F.S.F.'s insistence that the world can be neatly partitioned binarily into products that are entirely composed of “free software” and those that are not, and a want of such a binary partition often creates such bizarre paradoxes.
croutonwagon 5y ago
I’m less concerned about the prices and more concerned about their support. The L13v3 had a bad hinge. And there’s multiple reports of abysmal support for that, or basic things like batteries and chargers. My current computer is a Lenovo X200s bought new. So that’s basically the baseline for my expectation of longevity for a linux daily driver

m463 5y ago

I think they could always save/make money the traditional way: - reduce engineering costs by adding telemetry to make all your customers debug for you. - conveniently save all telemetry forever, just in case you can sell it for money. - pop-up advertising. I think those videos that play at the gas station would look good on the bootup screen. If the bootup is too short, then lock the desktop until it is finished. - take away features, then sell them back as upgrades. adjustable volume? $5

unixhero 5y ago
Get this man up into marketing at Oracle.
- m463 5y ago
  - per-seat licensing for useradd - fortune command interstitials - busy-loot-box I don't think oracle equity will match my monetization, but maybe I can partner with them for an ogrep idea I've been mulling over.
74d-fe6-2c6 5y ago
- preinstalling excellent software like McAffee for virus protection
- unionpivo 5y ago
  I just vomited in my mouth a little
1timewonderacc 5y ago
LOL if they do all what @m463 said, this Librem laptop won't be any different from what you buy anywhere else. Windows 10 junk anyone!? Telemetry!? WTF!
- yissp 5y ago
  pretty sure the comment was made in jest
  - m463 5y ago
    Yes. :) I have an original librem 13. It is quite refreshing. No proprietary drivers, works with every linux distribution without fiddling (I run arch). wifi/bt+mic/camera switches. Barrel jack for power. standard screws, standard memory, standard m.2, standard ssd.
- spicybright 5y ago
  woosh.

varispeed 5y ago

Bigger companies have lower price through high volume and often buying ready made designs from other companies - e.g. many laptops are essentially the same except they have slightly different shell, screen and other peripherals. The cost of creating a new design from scratch is enormous. It is understandable that small company would like to recover it, but also apply a margin high enough to have funds to work on future models. Don't forget that the cheap laptops also have factored in your data in their price (e.g. they come with malware and other software that assumes you will sign up and give up your privacy) - the GDPR largely applies only to websites and native applications don't seem to have the same T&C regarding privacy.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Okkef 5y ago
You are completely off the mark with regards to gdpr. Gdpr is not only about websites. It is about how you can handle and store any personal data. Whether that's on the web or in your company address book.

Blikkentrekker 5y ago

I think most of the criticism is directed at those who would pay more for ideological, not practical freedom. Especially with hardware the definition of “freedom” is rather nonsensical such as that by the F.S.F.'s definition, which many follow, destroying a microcontroller such that r.w.-memory becomes r.o. can actually make hardware change from not-free into free. — removing functionality from the user to replace proprietary software with free software makes it freer based on the F.S.F's definition that read-only memory is not software, but hardware.

rst 5y ago
Not sure that's the sum total of Purism's case here. The hardware kill switches on the mic and network aren't something that everyone needs or wants, but people who do don't have a whole lot of ready-built options.
crazypython 5y ago
> r.w.-memory becomes r.o. can actually make hardware change from not-free into free. It's about equal rights. For instance, if the manufacturer can provide security updates, but you can't, they can notify the NSA about security holes first before providing the update. Whereas if it is r.w. for all, anyone can provide security updates.
- Blikkentrekker 5y ago
  Not quite. In the F.S.F.'s definition, even if the manufacturer provided a full documentation of the hardware and thus an ability to write free drivers, but none had simply done so and it must thus be shipped with proprietary drivers, then making it r.o. renders the entire hardware “free”. In fact, a literal reading of the F.S.F.'s definition would make a computer with Windows on it, provided that it be burned into r.o. memory meet the terms of their Respects Your Freedom mark, though perhaps they would refuse in that case due to a clear violation of the spirit of the rules. The problem is that by the F.S.F.'s definition, one can sidestep it all by simply burning any proprietary software into r.o.m., as then it is hardware, not software. This paradox is the result of the F.S.F.'s insistence that the world can be neatly partitioned binarily into products that are entirely composed of “free software” and those that are not, and a want of such a binary partition often creates such bizarre paradoxes.

croutonwagon 5y ago

I’m less concerned about the prices and more concerned about their support. The L13v3 had a bad hinge. And there’s multiple reports of abysmal support for that, or basic things like batteries and chargers. My current computer is a Lenovo X200s bought new. So that’s basically the baseline for my expectation of longevity for a linux daily driver