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a laptop that starts at $1470 with a 802.11n wireless network interface, in the year 2021? seriously? Good luck with that when you want to copy some large fil

a laptop that starts at $1470 with a 802.11n wireless network interface, in the year 2021? seriously? Good luck with that when you want to copy some large files, or do anything network intensive, and your speeds max out at 65 Mbps between laptop and AP. As compared to the easily 300-450Mbps you can do in a 40 MHz channel with a 2x2 802.11ac connection. (Not even going to get into 3x3 and 80 MHz channel speeds here). looking at the librem 14 product specs page I can't even find any details on what exact chipset and antenna configuration it is. At that price it needs to be 802.11ac/ax 3x3 MIMO dual band. Overall it makes me wonder what other shoddy stuff might be used as various subsystems/components of the laptop, if I sat down with one and did "sudo lspci -v". For this "Gigabit Ethernet Adapter with Integrated RJ45 Connector" am I going to find a realtek chipset that belongs in a $430 laptop you can buy at Best Buy? And then they have the gall to sell the power adapter separately from the laptop, for an extra $59? What brand new laptop on earth doesn't come with an AC wall adapter/charger in the box?

bscphil 6y ago
Agreed. This article [1], though a bit old, suggests it's for idealist reasons: only these old Atheros chips have open firmware. Given that Intel processors are pretty dependent on close sourced microcode anyway and they're using a i7-10710U, I must admit I don't really see the point. [1] https://www.pcworld.com/article/3223865/purism-librem-15.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/3223865/purism-librem-15.htm...
- walrus01 6y ago
  I really don't see the point either, since I somehow doubt that they have access to the source code of the Intel CPU's integrated graphics firmware. Or of the gigabit ethernet controller they're using. Or the firmware of the SSD. What exactly are they gaining by standing on principle and not using a proper modern 802.11ac/ax interface?
  - ganafagol 6y ago
    Yes, you are not seeing the point because you are missing it. This laptop is in a niche that's obviously not yours. Offering as much freedom as possible comes at a price. A price paid in money, in one-generation-older hardware of some components, and in making compromises that some components are not as free as they ideally would be, but which don't have alternatives. You don't fit that niche, apparently, but just don't go buy it then. Instead of ranting, go buy an overpriced macbook and leave other people to their own choices. As comparison, it's like saying that current EVs are not totally carbon-neutral, too slow and too expensive so you don't see the point and keep buying cars with ICEs. You are free to have that opinion, but it's not the only one around.
    - walrus01 6y ago
      Exactly what freedom is anyone gaining by using an obsolete network interface? Is there actually some profound different level of capability in the open source drivers for a qualcomm/atheros 802.11n chipset from eight years ago? What GPL zealot freedom is gained on this thing over taking an ordinary reference-design Intel chipset business class laptop (such as from ASUS or MSI) and installing pure debian or arch on it, and never enabling a non-free repo?
      - ganafagol 6y ago
        "GPL zealot" is an unnecessary term. You make your choices, others make theirs. It's fascinating how much energy you are wasting commenting on an article that follows a philosophy that you seem to reject so strongly.
        scoopertrooper 6y ago
        I don't think it's fair to criticise someone else for taking the time to engage with you in discussion on the internet. OP wasn't rejecting the basic philosophical underpinnings of the Librem project, but merely noted the inconsistency with which they applied those principles. Librem could have developed a pure FOSS machine if they'd chosen to do so. However, it'd have a RISK-V based chip and a bunch of other exotic components that would have rendered impractical for regular use. Instead, Librem took the pragmatic route and chose to adopt a number of proprietary components including an Intel CPU. Despite this, they chose to bypass Intel when choosing a WiFi chip at the cost of being unable to support modern WiFi standards. It doesn't really make a lot of sense.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    Here is why it matters: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25504641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25504641.
ActorNightly 6y ago
What a weird thing to be concerned about. This is like writing an article that a Macbook Air can't play the latest Call of Duty Game
- walrus01 6y ago
  Not weird at all, and here's the rationale: Something based on full "open source" principles will stand on its own merits based on the full details of its specifications and capabilities, or it won't. Your analogy is also a poor one because it's well known in the "thin and light" class of laptop that all of them use CPU integrated/low TDP graphics, designed first and foremost for 2D desktop performance (plus H264+HEVC encode and decode acceleration), and none of them are particularly capable of playing intensive 3D games. If you want to game at 1080p and anything close to 60Hz with high texture details it's a fact that no matter what brand/model of laptop you buy, you're going to be buying something thicker, a bit heavier, with a discrete GPU on the PCI-E bus. Fact is that laptops in the $1300+ class were shipping with 802.11ac 3x3 capable interfaces seven years ago. The wifi performance of a mid-2014 macbook pro will run circles around this thing.
  - ganafagol 6y ago
    So buy a macbook then. What a weird detail to make so much noise about.
  - globular-toast 6y ago
    You were told the hardware just isn't available. It's as simple as that. You are surely aware of the concept of tradeoffs. This is one of them. For some, using free/open source software that respects their freedom is more important than convenience.
  - baybal2 6y ago
    WiFi performance went down on average through the decade. Most WiFi products these days never go to an RF lab for fine tuning.
  - ActorNightly 6y ago
sildur 6y ago
> Good luck with that when you want to copy some large files I never ever found myself, or any other person in the need for urgently copy some large files over the local network.
- walrus01 6y ago
  Then you've clearly never edited video or moved around a disk image of a virtual machine, or anything else that will tax your patience copying 5GB over shoddy wifi (nevermind things much larger than 5 gigs).
  - sildur 6y ago
    But that would be over internet, not over the local network. And internet is slow on average.
    - maccard 6y ago
      You can still connect to a local network via ethernet
  - globular-toast 6y ago
    Yeah, you're right, he hasn't. Thanks for the reiteration. Not everyone uses a laptop for the same things you do. For the stuff you're talking about I wouldn't dream of doing it away from a desktop computer plugged in to GigE. For me, and many others, the sole purpose of a laptop is portability. I couldn't care less if it can't do what my desktop computer can do.
  - VVertigo 6y ago
    Although, if you are performing serious work loads like that, why not just take the 10s to plug in the Ethernet cable? It seems like for these use cases you already would be using the laptop with the power cable hooked up.
rnestler 6y ago
> And then they have the gall to sell the power adapter separately from the laptop, for an extra $59? What brand new laptop on earth doesn't come with an AC wall adapter/charger in the box? This is a good thing IMO, since I already have two AC chargers which are compatible with the Librem 14: One from a Librem 13 and another from a Tuxedo laptop. Chargers stay alive a lot longer than laptops, so it's more sustainable of I can keep using them.
- PurpleFoxy 6y ago
  I don’t get why people get so up in arms over splitting out parts from products. Would they rather the price be bumped $49 and the charger come included and people who already have one buy a pointless charger? If you don’t have one then you just factor the cost in to the purchase and if you do have one it comes out cheaper.
  - aidos 6y ago
    In a way, it’s an example of poor framing. I, too, react badly to being told the price and then discovering there are hidden extras. They could price it in and then say “oh hey, if you already have a charger just tick this box and save yourself 50 bucks”
    - liamwire 6y ago
      I really think this is the way to do it, by delighting your customers if they opt into the saving, and not insulting them if they don’t
sigg3 6y ago
I think you're making adequate observations but missing the point. The Librem line of products are targeting a market niche of Free Software/Hardware, transparency and security. If you're comparing to the offerings available in Best buy, you're probably not in the target audience. Not sure why they sell the power adapter separately though. Judging by the Librem 14 page, the adapter is not sold separately, it's something you select while setting up the order..? Cf. https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-14/ https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-14/
- walrus01 6y ago
  I've been using FreeBSD since 1998 on the server side - and currently admin a large amount of Debian based infrastructure stuff - so I'm well aware of the philosophical GPL/LGPL/BSD related issues related to free software. And I admire what they're trying to do with this laptop. Being a start-up small hardware manufacturer in the same ecosystem with 500 pound behemoths like Microsoft selling Surface Books, and Dells and such, is a really hard position to be in. But I also believe that on the x86-64 platform, hardware will either stand on its own merits or it won't. There's no glossing over that some components on this thing are really not a good value for the money.
  - turbinerneiter 6y ago
    That depends on how you value openness. I'd happily pay a premium and accept older hardware if it gives me more openness. That's not to say that an old, slow wifi card doesn't bother me - but I don't think I will get a new gats wifi card with open firmware unless I pay the people who will work on it.
- flemhans 6y ago
  Aren't you just making yourself a target by ordering from them? I know they have the add-on tamper seals, but if I was any agency, I'd make sure to monitor packages coming out of their warehouse.
techphys_91 6y ago
I take your point, but for reference at 65MbPs you could transfer 10Gb in under 3 minutes. I would imagine that's more than sufficient for the majority of people.
- mgraupner 6y ago
  10GB or 10Gb? You mean gigabyte? Then 65Mbps would take ~20 minutes to transfer, which is pretty slow.
  - techphys_91 6y ago
    You are right! I had read it as 65MB/s, not 65Mbits/s. Thank you.
neolog 6y ago
Definitely agree. Free-software buyers have money to burn. Librem should price accordingly.
ganafagol 6y ago
The power adapter is the same for different laptops in their line. Somebody upgrading or for other reasons reusing the old adapter won't need a new one and thereby saves money and trash. Did you make the same amount of noise when Apple stopped include the phone charger? "What brand new phone on earth..."?
jezz 6y ago
My main concern for a wifi chip is not the speed. On top of the list I would place the power consumption, then the features (suspend, WoWLAN, monitoring mode, DTLS, DFS, CSA, etc...) and then the speed. For the two first points, having an Open Source firmware helps a lot.
fsflover 6y ago
> and then they have the gall to sell the power adapter separately from the laptop, for an extra $59? Where did you read this? I don't think it's the case. AFAIK you can order a second power adapter for $59.
- walrus01 6y ago
  On the Librem 14 product page, it says: "Power Adapter $59.00 Power adapter for Librem 13, Librem 14 and Librem 15. These ship separately from your main laptop order."
  - fsflover 6y ago
    This is description of a separate shopping item. Power adapter is included in laptops: https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-14-questions-and-wonder/10598/2 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-14-questions-and-wonder/1059....
fsflover 6y ago
> a laptop that starts at $1470 with a 802.11n wireless network interface, in the year 2021? seriously? There are no wifi cards supporting free firmware except this one. With such card, you can have fully free OS without any binary blobs: https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-wifi-specs/5900/2 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-wifi-specs/5900/2. Why it matters? See here: Why FSF Endorsing PureOS Matters 161 points | 4 months ago | 129 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25504641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25504641 By the way, you can easily replace the card if you want and install the binary blobs. Upd: Power adapter is included in laptops: https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-14-questions-and-wonder/10598/2 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-14-questions-and-wonder/1059....
- wott 6y ago
  > There are no wifi cards supporting free firmware except this one. I think this one doesn't have free firmware either, it's just that the firmware stays on the card and thus is not loaded from the OS. IMO the driver is free, but the firmware isn't.
  - fsflover 6y ago
    Yes, the laptop card has free firmware: https://wiki.debian.org/ath9k https://wiki.debian.org/ath9k. The one in their phone Librem 5 has proprietary firmware which stays on the card. And it supports more bands.
    - wott 6y ago
      > Yes, the laptop card has free firmware: https://wiki.debian.org/ath9k https://wiki.debian.org/ath9k. No, it hasn't. You're confusing driver and firmware, again. What it has, and what you are showing me, is a free driver. The former is executed on the main processor of your computer, the second on the various chips of your card / device which can run various forms of code. The second can be loaded either from the main CPU (computer), or from some flash or some (P)ROM located on the board or directly inside the chips.
      - 6y ago
anoncake 6y ago
> And then they have the gall to sell the power adapter separately from the laptop, for an extra $59? What brand new laptop on earth doesn't come with an AC wall adapter/charger in the box? One that's $59 cheaper than if it included a charger?
kop316 6y ago
> a laptop that starts at $1470 with a 802.11n wireless network interface, in the year 2021? seriously? https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-14/ https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-14/ So you have the option to not have the wireless card installed (it's $29 cheaper), and buy your own wireless and install it. Oddly enough, the only way to get your "$1470" figure I see if to remove the wireless card, so you had to have seen that. That implies I can upgrade the wireless card. I am typing on a Thinkpad x200 (yes...from 2008) and I can (and have) upgraded the Wifi Card. Here I found a Intel AX200 (Which supports WiFi 6): https://www.newegg.com/fenvi-ax200ngw-pcie-half-mini-card-m-2/p/0XM-00JK-00064 https://www.newegg.com/fenvi-ax200ngw-pcie-half-mini-card-m-... (this is not the same card I have in my laptop, I forget where I bought the one in here). You are free to buy it and install it (I sincerely doubt coreboot enforeces a PCI whitelist), And it looks like you will come out $10 ahead. To be honest, I wish I could buy all of my laptops without a HD, wireless card, RAM, etc and put that all in myself (I did that for my Thinkpad x2100, and I am very happy I did) > And then they have the gall to sell the power adapter separately from the laptop, for an extra $59? What brand new laptop on earth doesn't come with an AC wall adapter/charger in the box? ??????????????? https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-14/ https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-14/ I see "Power Adapter Plug", and no option to ship without one. No option is more expensive. I don't think they are only shipping a "Power Adapter Plug" without a "Power Adapter".
- croutonwagon 6y ago
  As someone still currently using an x200s. Is that the same chipset you have? Because I read it wouldn’t run 802.11ac. But I also read only 4GB of ram was supported and found some fringe thread that had a specific chip that worked fine too. I’m on the fence about upgrading and have been for years now. The x200s has served me well and I really spend most of my time either in a browser, on a terminal or using audacious... Ive got paralysis by analysis at this point because the x200s has served me SO well
  - kop316 6y ago
    I have 8 GB, and it runs fine! > Because I read it wouldn’t run 802.11ac. Why not? It has a miniPCI express card, you just nedd to find a compatible one: https://www.newegg.com/intel-7260hmw-mini-pci-express/p/N82E16833106190 https://www.newegg.com/intel-7260hmw-mini-pci-express/p/N82E... You need to make sure that you mod the whitelist so it will accept it. (Ok so I mixed up my x2100 and my x200, my x2100 has a AX200, sorry!)
rijoja 6y ago
You can buy it without a wireless network interface. Then it should be fairly easy to get a new wifi card and use that one. The cost comes from: - having core boot pre-installed - CPU backdoors disabled by default - being guaranteed to run the OS of your choice Probably someone else knows this better than me. But other than buying this the approach would be to buy an older or slightly older Thinkpad. Maybe upgrade CPU, SSD. Do a lot of complicated and potentially dangerous flashing of BIOS. This would take you weeks in terms of lead times of delivery. Also it would take hours of hours of work, in which you might damage components or even get the wrong one. I would like to do this, but where am I to find the time. I would also be able to pay someone to do it, but it is not as your local computer shop will be likely to deliver. I bet that if you where I have also heard the argument that for instance smartphone producers should not ship power adapters. Since all phones can charge via USB. This is by law in the EU at least. This means that there is an enormous waste when you are creating and shipping power adaptors to people who already have four or five at home. This is not taking other family members into account
- rijoja 6y ago
  Oh, and since on the subject. Physically it is quite easy change the network interface on many computers. What often happens though however is that the BIOS has a whitelist containing certain device IDs. This means that the BIOS will restrict usage to one or two different devices. So if you where to buy a state of the art laptop today, and would want to change the wifi when there is a new wifi standard. So hypothetically speaking, what if there is a new WPA3 that requires hardware support. Then you wouldn't be able to change it without rewriting and flashing the BIOS. Something that might be next to impossible if the BIOS is signed.

bscphil 6y ago

Agreed. This article [1], though a bit old, suggests it's for idealist reasons: only these old Atheros chips have open firmware. Given that Intel processors are pretty dependent on close sourced microcode anyway and they're using a i7-10710U, I must admit I don't really see the point. [1] https://www.pcworld.com/article/3223865/purism-librem-15.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/3223865/purism-librem-15.htm...

walrus01 6y ago
I really don't see the point either, since I somehow doubt that they have access to the source code of the Intel CPU's integrated graphics firmware. Or of the gigabit ethernet controller they're using. Or the firmware of the SSD. What exactly are they gaining by standing on principle and not using a proper modern 802.11ac/ax interface?
- ganafagol 6y ago
  Yes, you are not seeing the point because you are missing it. This laptop is in a niche that's obviously not yours. Offering as much freedom as possible comes at a price. A price paid in money, in one-generation-older hardware of some components, and in making compromises that some components are not as free as they ideally would be, but which don't have alternatives. You don't fit that niche, apparently, but just don't go buy it then. Instead of ranting, go buy an overpriced macbook and leave other people to their own choices. As comparison, it's like saying that current EVs are not totally carbon-neutral, too slow and too expensive so you don't see the point and keep buying cars with ICEs. You are free to have that opinion, but it's not the only one around.
  - walrus01 6y ago
    Exactly what freedom is anyone gaining by using an obsolete network interface? Is there actually some profound different level of capability in the open source drivers for a qualcomm/atheros 802.11n chipset from eight years ago? What GPL zealot freedom is gained on this thing over taking an ordinary reference-design Intel chipset business class laptop (such as from ASUS or MSI) and installing pure debian or arch on it, and never enabling a non-free repo?
    - ganafagol 6y ago
      "GPL zealot" is an unnecessary term. You make your choices, others make theirs. It's fascinating how much energy you are wasting commenting on an article that follows a philosophy that you seem to reject so strongly.
      - scoopertrooper 6y ago
        I don't think it's fair to criticise someone else for taking the time to engage with you in discussion on the internet. OP wasn't rejecting the basic philosophical underpinnings of the Librem project, but merely noted the inconsistency with which they applied those principles. Librem could have developed a pure FOSS machine if they'd chosen to do so. However, it'd have a RISK-V based chip and a bunch of other exotic components that would have rendered impractical for regular use. Instead, Librem took the pragmatic route and chose to adopt a number of proprietary components including an Intel CPU. Despite this, they chose to bypass Intel when choosing a WiFi chip at the cost of being unable to support modern WiFi standards. It doesn't really make a lot of sense.
- fsflover 6y ago
  Here is why it matters: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25504641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25504641.

ActorNightly 6y ago

What a weird thing to be concerned about. This is like writing an article that a Macbook Air can't play the latest Call of Duty Game

walrus01 6y ago
Not weird at all, and here's the rationale: Something based on full "open source" principles will stand on its own merits based on the full details of its specifications and capabilities, or it won't. Your analogy is also a poor one because it's well known in the "thin and light" class of laptop that all of them use CPU integrated/low TDP graphics, designed first and foremost for 2D desktop performance (plus H264+HEVC encode and decode acceleration), and none of them are particularly capable of playing intensive 3D games. If you want to game at 1080p and anything close to 60Hz with high texture details it's a fact that no matter what brand/model of laptop you buy, you're going to be buying something thicker, a bit heavier, with a discrete GPU on the PCI-E bus. Fact is that laptops in the $1300+ class were shipping with 802.11ac 3x3 capable interfaces seven years ago. The wifi performance of a mid-2014 macbook pro will run circles around this thing.
- ganafagol 6y ago
  So buy a macbook then. What a weird detail to make so much noise about.
- globular-toast 6y ago
  You were told the hardware just isn't available. It's as simple as that. You are surely aware of the concept of tradeoffs. This is one of them. For some, using free/open source software that respects their freedom is more important than convenience.
- baybal2 6y ago
  WiFi performance went down on average through the decade. Most WiFi products these days never go to an RF lab for fine tuning.
- ActorNightly 6y ago

sildur 6y ago

> Good luck with that when you want to copy some large files I never ever found myself, or any other person in the need for urgently copy some large files over the local network.

walrus01 6y ago
Then you've clearly never edited video or moved around a disk image of a virtual machine, or anything else that will tax your patience copying 5GB over shoddy wifi (nevermind things much larger than 5 gigs).
- sildur 6y ago
  But that would be over internet, not over the local network. And internet is slow on average.
  - maccard 6y ago
    You can still connect to a local network via ethernet
- globular-toast 6y ago
  Yeah, you're right, he hasn't. Thanks for the reiteration. Not everyone uses a laptop for the same things you do. For the stuff you're talking about I wouldn't dream of doing it away from a desktop computer plugged in to GigE. For me, and many others, the sole purpose of a laptop is portability. I couldn't care less if it can't do what my desktop computer can do.
- VVertigo 6y ago
  Although, if you are performing serious work loads like that, why not just take the 10s to plug in the Ethernet cable? It seems like for these use cases you already would be using the laptop with the power cable hooked up.

rnestler 6y ago

> And then they have the gall to sell the power adapter separately from the laptop, for an extra $59? What brand new laptop on earth doesn't come with an AC wall adapter/charger in the box? This is a good thing IMO, since I already have two AC chargers which are compatible with the Librem 14: One from a Librem 13 and another from a Tuxedo laptop. Chargers stay alive a lot longer than laptops, so it's more sustainable of I can keep using them.

PurpleFoxy 6y ago
I don’t get why people get so up in arms over splitting out parts from products. Would they rather the price be bumped $49 and the charger come included and people who already have one buy a pointless charger? If you don’t have one then you just factor the cost in to the purchase and if you do have one it comes out cheaper.
- aidos 6y ago
  In a way, it’s an example of poor framing. I, too, react badly to being told the price and then discovering there are hidden extras. They could price it in and then say “oh hey, if you already have a charger just tick this box and save yourself 50 bucks”
  - liamwire 6y ago
    I really think this is the way to do it, by delighting your customers if they opt into the saving, and not insulting them if they don’t

sigg3 6y ago

I think you're making adequate observations but missing the point. The Librem line of products are targeting a market niche of Free Software/Hardware, transparency and security. If you're comparing to the offerings available in Best buy, you're probably not in the target audience. Not sure why they sell the power adapter separately though. Judging by the Librem 14 page, the adapter is not sold separately, it's something you select while setting up the order..? Cf. https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-14/ https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-14/

walrus01 6y ago
I've been using FreeBSD since 1998 on the server side - and currently admin a large amount of Debian based infrastructure stuff - so I'm well aware of the philosophical GPL/LGPL/BSD related issues related to free software. And I admire what they're trying to do with this laptop. Being a start-up small hardware manufacturer in the same ecosystem with 500 pound behemoths like Microsoft selling Surface Books, and Dells and such, is a really hard position to be in. But I also believe that on the x86-64 platform, hardware will either stand on its own merits or it won't. There's no glossing over that some components on this thing are really not a good value for the money.
- turbinerneiter 6y ago
  That depends on how you value openness. I'd happily pay a premium and accept older hardware if it gives me more openness. That's not to say that an old, slow wifi card doesn't bother me - but I don't think I will get a new gats wifi card with open firmware unless I pay the people who will work on it.
flemhans 6y ago
Aren't you just making yourself a target by ordering from them? I know they have the add-on tamper seals, but if I was any agency, I'd make sure to monitor packages coming out of their warehouse.

techphys_91 6y ago

I take your point, but for reference at 65MbPs you could transfer 10Gb in under 3 minutes. I would imagine that's more than sufficient for the majority of people.

mgraupner 6y ago
10GB or 10Gb? You mean gigabyte? Then 65Mbps would take ~20 minutes to transfer, which is pretty slow.
- techphys_91 6y ago
  You are right! I had read it as 65MB/s, not 65Mbits/s. Thank you.

neolog 6y ago

Definitely agree. Free-software buyers have money to burn. Librem should price accordingly.

ganafagol 6y ago

The power adapter is the same for different laptops in their line. Somebody upgrading or for other reasons reusing the old adapter won't need a new one and thereby saves money and trash. Did you make the same amount of noise when Apple stopped include the phone charger? "What brand new phone on earth..."?

jezz 6y ago

My main concern for a wifi chip is not the speed. On top of the list I would place the power consumption, then the features (suspend, WoWLAN, monitoring mode, DTLS, DFS, CSA, etc...) and then the speed. For the two first points, having an Open Source firmware helps a lot.

fsflover 6y ago

> and then they have the gall to sell the power adapter separately from the laptop, for an extra $59? Where did you read this? I don't think it's the case. AFAIK you can order a second power adapter for $59.

walrus01 6y ago
On the Librem 14 product page, it says: "Power Adapter $59.00 Power adapter for Librem 13, Librem 14 and Librem 15. These ship separately from your main laptop order."
- fsflover 6y ago
  This is description of a separate shopping item. Power adapter is included in laptops: https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-14-questions-and-wonder/10598/2 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-14-questions-and-wonder/1059....

fsflover 6y ago

> a laptop that starts at $1470 with a 802.11n wireless network interface, in the year 2021? seriously? There are no wifi cards supporting free firmware except this one. With such card, you can have fully free OS without any binary blobs: https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-wifi-specs/5900/2 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-wifi-specs/5900/2. Why it matters? See here: Why FSF Endorsing PureOS Matters 161 points | 4 months ago | 129 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25504641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25504641 By the way, you can easily replace the card if you want and install the binary blobs. Upd: Power adapter is included in laptops: https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-14-questions-and-wonder/10598/2 https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-14-questions-and-wonder/1059....

wott 6y ago
> There are no wifi cards supporting free firmware except this one. I think this one doesn't have free firmware either, it's just that the firmware stays on the card and thus is not loaded from the OS. IMO the driver is free, but the firmware isn't.
- fsflover 6y ago
  Yes, the laptop card has free firmware: https://wiki.debian.org/ath9k https://wiki.debian.org/ath9k. The one in their phone Librem 5 has proprietary firmware which stays on the card. And it supports more bands.
  - wott 6y ago
    > Yes, the laptop card has free firmware: https://wiki.debian.org/ath9k https://wiki.debian.org/ath9k. No, it hasn't. You're confusing driver and firmware, again. What it has, and what you are showing me, is a free driver. The former is executed on the main processor of your computer, the second on the various chips of your card / device which can run various forms of code. The second can be loaded either from the main CPU (computer), or from some flash or some (P)ROM located on the board or directly inside the chips.
    - 6y ago

anoncake 6y ago

kop316 6y ago

> a laptop that starts at $1470 with a 802.11n wireless network interface, in the year 2021? seriously? https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-14/ https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-14/ So you have the option to not have the wireless card installed (it's $29 cheaper), and buy your own wireless and install it. Oddly enough, the only way to get your "$1470" figure I see if to remove the wireless card, so you had to have seen that. That implies I can upgrade the wireless card. I am typing on a Thinkpad x200 (yes...from 2008) and I can (and have) upgraded the Wifi Card. Here I found a Intel AX200 (Which supports WiFi 6): https://www.newegg.com/fenvi-ax200ngw-pcie-half-mini-card-m-2/p/0XM-00JK-00064 https://www.newegg.com/fenvi-ax200ngw-pcie-half-mini-card-m-... (this is not the same card I have in my laptop, I forget where I bought the one in here). You are free to buy it and install it (I sincerely doubt coreboot enforeces a PCI whitelist), And it looks like you will come out $10 ahead. To be honest, I wish I could buy all of my laptops without a HD, wireless card, RAM, etc and put that all in myself (I did that for my Thinkpad x2100, and I am very happy I did) > And then they have the gall to sell the power adapter separately from the laptop, for an extra $59? What brand new laptop on earth doesn't come with an AC wall adapter/charger in the box? ??????????????? https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-14/ https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-14/ I see "Power Adapter Plug", and no option to ship without one. No option is more expensive. I don't think they are only shipping a "Power Adapter Plug" without a "Power Adapter".

croutonwagon 6y ago
As someone still currently using an x200s. Is that the same chipset you have? Because I read it wouldn’t run 802.11ac. But I also read only 4GB of ram was supported and found some fringe thread that had a specific chip that worked fine too. I’m on the fence about upgrading and have been for years now. The x200s has served me well and I really spend most of my time either in a browser, on a terminal or using audacious... Ive got paralysis by analysis at this point because the x200s has served me SO well
- kop316 6y ago
  I have 8 GB, and it runs fine! > Because I read it wouldn’t run 802.11ac. Why not? It has a miniPCI express card, you just nedd to find a compatible one: https://www.newegg.com/intel-7260hmw-mini-pci-express/p/N82E16833106190 https://www.newegg.com/intel-7260hmw-mini-pci-express/p/N82E... You need to make sure that you mod the whitelist so it will accept it. (Ok so I mixed up my x2100 and my x200, my x2100 has a AX200, sorry!)

rijoja 6y ago

You can buy it without a wireless network interface. Then it should be fairly easy to get a new wifi card and use that one. The cost comes from: - having core boot pre-installed - CPU backdoors disabled by default - being guaranteed to run the OS of your choice Probably someone else knows this better than me. But other than buying this the approach would be to buy an older or slightly older Thinkpad. Maybe upgrade CPU, SSD. Do a lot of complicated and potentially dangerous flashing of BIOS. This would take you weeks in terms of lead times of delivery. Also it would take hours of hours of work, in which you might damage components or even get the wrong one. I would like to do this, but where am I to find the time. I would also be able to pay someone to do it, but it is not as your local computer shop will be likely to deliver. I bet that if you where I have also heard the argument that for instance smartphone producers should not ship power adapters. Since all phones can charge via USB. This is by law in the EU at least. This means that there is an enormous waste when you are creating and shipping power adaptors to people who already have four or five at home. This is not taking other family members into account

rijoja 6y ago
Oh, and since on the subject. Physically it is quite easy change the network interface on many computers. What often happens though however is that the BIOS has a whitelist containing certain device IDs. This means that the BIOS will restrict usage to one or two different devices. So if you where to buy a state of the art laptop today, and would want to change the wifi when there is a new wifi standard. So hypothetically speaking, what if there is a new WPA3 that requires hardware support. Then you wouldn't be able to change it without rewriting and flashing the BIOS. Something that might be next to impossible if the BIOS is signed.