5 ms·

Who wants permanent persistence as a feature of secure comms? Save messages or files that you find permanently important to store?

atat7024 6y ago
(You all could reply with your thoughts, as well)
pseudalopex 6y ago
It should be obvious end to end encryption and ephemeral messages are for different threat models. And blocking iOS backup but allowing Android backup, desktop backup, and iOS history transfer is a really bad way to implement ephemeral messages. You assume someone will know what they'll want later when they receive it. Saving several messages together is tedious in most apps. So is organizing saved messages.
scatters 6y ago
You don't know that a message is important at the time.
WilTimSon 6y ago
Sometimes you forget or your own storage fails, so having a backup plan is good. Like another commenter said, to me it depends on what the info is. Although I suppose you can't quite "pick and choose" in these matters.
etiam 6y ago
But the aim of Signal is default secure comms. It's supposed to easily wrap everything, from the absolutely banal to the fairly sensitive, in strong encryption in order to cut into the returns on performing mass surveillance. The question just comes down to who generally wants their communication contents persistent until actively destroyed, as opposed to quasi-randomly wiped out by technical snafus. If you want transient there are the time-limited messages, for instance...
alerighi 6y ago
Everyone that uses chats for serious business. I can't afford to loose conversations with my clients. For that I use only messaging systems that allow me to save chats: email, and then WhatsApp. Even Telegram has a problem, because even if messages are on the cloud, one could delete single messages or a whole conversation on your device as well. Regarding screenshots and saving messages: not only it's a thing that you have to remember doing, but screenshots have (at least in my country) no legal value, since everyone can easily produce them with Photoshop. You can say the same thing for WhatsApp messages, but sure it's more difficult (or at least it appears more difficult to a judge that doesn't know anything about IT). Basically screenshots are never accepted as a proof for something, WhatsApp messages on your phone are.
- nikanj 6y ago
  And screenshots are not searchable
andrepd 6y ago
I use signal to not be spied on by facebook or telegram or w/e. That is entirely orthogonal to having or not having backups.
XorNot 6y ago
Anyone who realizes that if it ever left your device, it has to be presumed to exist forever.

atat7024 6y ago

(You all could reply with your thoughts, as well)

pseudalopex 6y ago

It should be obvious end to end encryption and ephemeral messages are for different threat models. And blocking iOS backup but allowing Android backup, desktop backup, and iOS history transfer is a really bad way to implement ephemeral messages. You assume someone will know what they'll want later when they receive it. Saving several messages together is tedious in most apps. So is organizing saved messages.

scatters 6y ago

You don't know that a message is important at the time.

WilTimSon 6y ago

Sometimes you forget or your own storage fails, so having a backup plan is good. Like another commenter said, to me it depends on what the info is. Although I suppose you can't quite "pick and choose" in these matters.

etiam 6y ago

But the aim of Signal is default secure comms. It's supposed to easily wrap everything, from the absolutely banal to the fairly sensitive, in strong encryption in order to cut into the returns on performing mass surveillance. The question just comes down to who generally wants their communication contents persistent until actively destroyed, as opposed to quasi-randomly wiped out by technical snafus. If you want transient there are the time-limited messages, for instance...

alerighi 6y ago

Everyone that uses chats for serious business. I can't afford to loose conversations with my clients. For that I use only messaging systems that allow me to save chats: email, and then WhatsApp. Even Telegram has a problem, because even if messages are on the cloud, one could delete single messages or a whole conversation on your device as well. Regarding screenshots and saving messages: not only it's a thing that you have to remember doing, but screenshots have (at least in my country) no legal value, since everyone can easily produce them with Photoshop. You can say the same thing for WhatsApp messages, but sure it's more difficult (or at least it appears more difficult to a judge that doesn't know anything about IT). Basically screenshots are never accepted as a proof for something, WhatsApp messages on your phone are.

nikanj 6y ago
And screenshots are not searchable

andrepd 6y ago

I use signal to not be spied on by facebook or telegram or w/e. That is entirely orthogonal to having or not having backups.

XorNot 6y ago

Anyone who realizes that if it ever left your device, it has to be presumed to exist forever.