7 ms·

Your description of ideal working conditions sounds so robotic to me. Schedule everything! No off the cuff conversations! Screw the human desire for socializing

Your description of ideal working conditions sounds so robotic to me. Schedule everything! No off the cuff conversations! Screw the human desire for socializing, we've got shit to do! Right now my team is comprised of no one that I've met in person. I feel absolutely no connection to them and feel so incredibly disconnected from my work. Like I've been playing the same video game for 8 hours a day for a year and nothing I'm doing is real. I'm quite scared of hybrid or full remote solutions for my company. I don't want to switch companies right now but if they go full or hybrid WFH I might have to, just to keep my sanity.

gregmac 5y ago
Curious: Do you do regular video calls? Do you ever discuss anything aside from work? Even during a "work" discussion, do people make jokes, laugh, etc? Do you have chat (slack) channels, and are they active? Does anyone ever spontaneously post something like "hey, anyone feel like talking about x that I'm trying to sort out?" Is chat pure business or do people ever discuss anything else? These are all kind of leading questions, but the things that I think are key to making it work.
- thelean12 5y ago
  Sure, we have all that. And maybe I'm just wired differently. I haven't made any real connections or friendships with my virtual coworkers over the past year. In the past when I joined a new IRL team, I'd have some budding friendships after a few team lunches. Maybe it's because there are hardly any actual real personal bonding moments. For example, lunch with 10 talking heads on a VC is insane to me since you can't have more than one conversation at once, and any conversation you have has to be with the entire group. You can't pick up on something someone said, realize someone else has the same interest as you and go sit next to them and talk it out. You have to have the 1:1 conversation in front of the whole group, or leave the group. That's just one example of why it seems so difficult to make real, genuine friendships at work now.
dleslie 5y ago
We actively talk over slack. There's a #random channel, a #stonks channel, et al. There's plenty of banter. But _anyone_ can mute those and focus. I _cannot_ mute a coworker talking loudly next to my desk.
- thelean12 5y ago
  > I _cannot_ mute a coworker talking loudly next to my desk. Maybe my team was more respectful. Any prolonged conversation can and was taken to a conference room or common area. I also wear noise canceling headphones most of the day, and find the general muted drone of office noises nice. People listen to recorded audio of cafes and stuff, it's basically the same for me. But to be clear: I'm not saying everyone should have the same preferences as me. I'm just letting my voice and concerns be heard, since I've heard plenty of people go on about how they think WFH/remote work is better.
  - dleslie 5y ago
    Noise cancelling isn't enough. If I know someone is discussing topics important to my deliverables then I have to pay attention.
    - thelean12 5y ago
      I'm not sure how that's different than someone sending a direct message to someone in a chat. Except now you'd definitely have no idea if someone was discussing something important and you were missing it.
      - dleslie 5y ago
        With vocal interaction people expect an immediate response. With text interaction they are willing to tolerate a delay.
  - solosoyokaze 5y ago
    It's funny that you described wfh as "robotic" yet you literally have to use robot assisted noise cancellation in your office. I don't mean that to be snarky, just an observation. I find wfh much more "human" as I can be around friends and family, go for walks, eat healthier... Probably the biggest gain is not having a boss watch me all day. That seems superbly unnatural to me.
exotree 5y ago
What is disconcerting about hybrid? This seems to be the solution that strikes a good balance between your needs and the needs of your other coworkers who probably appreciate the increased flexibility.
- dleslie 5y ago
  Have you ever tried to have a party at two locations? It doesn't work.
  - exotree 5y ago
    That’s... not at all the same concept. There are a lot of companies pre-pandemic that had hybrid offices. Many global companies have had zoom rooms and other teleconferencing solutions for years.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    Using this logic, employers' offices and branches in other cities shouldn't work either, but they do. Remote and hybrid companies also show that they work, too.
    - dleslie 5y ago
      Separate offices tend to have separate clients and/or separate products.
whateveracct 5y ago
I love not having a connection to my coworkers personally. I have some connection to the handful of people I directly collaborate with (like people who work on the same codebase), but that's it. And those interactions are far from daily, but enough that I have casual rapport. Nothing meaningful or personal required, but still a good working relationship.
- thelean12 5y ago
  I spend ~35% of my weekly waking hours with my coworkers. Despite my objection, I completely understand people who want WFH/remote. But I absolutely don't understand people with your sentiment.
  - whateveracct 5y ago
    I spend my waking hours with people too, if that helps explain the sentiment. I'm definitely full & happy on the "people I have meaningful relationships with" front without coworkers adding on. Spending 1/3 of my waking adult life with people who happen to have the same employer as me just isn't appealing. It's so easy to find people I have more in common with.
nkrisc 5y ago
Different strokes for different folks, but I work to make money, not friends. If I don’t need the money I wouldn’t be there. I prefer to socialize outside of work. I do my job, my coworkers do their job, and then we can close our laptops at the end of the day and engage with our lives and not think about each other.

gregmac 5y ago

Curious: Do you do regular video calls? Do you ever discuss anything aside from work? Even during a "work" discussion, do people make jokes, laugh, etc? Do you have chat (slack) channels, and are they active? Does anyone ever spontaneously post something like "hey, anyone feel like talking about x that I'm trying to sort out?" Is chat pure business or do people ever discuss anything else? These are all kind of leading questions, but the things that I think are key to making it work.

thelean12 5y ago
Sure, we have all that. And maybe I'm just wired differently. I haven't made any real connections or friendships with my virtual coworkers over the past year. In the past when I joined a new IRL team, I'd have some budding friendships after a few team lunches. Maybe it's because there are hardly any actual real personal bonding moments. For example, lunch with 10 talking heads on a VC is insane to me since you can't have more than one conversation at once, and any conversation you have has to be with the entire group. You can't pick up on something someone said, realize someone else has the same interest as you and go sit next to them and talk it out. You have to have the 1:1 conversation in front of the whole group, or leave the group. That's just one example of why it seems so difficult to make real, genuine friendships at work now.

dleslie 5y ago

We actively talk over slack. There's a #random channel, a #stonks channel, et al. There's plenty of banter. But _anyone_ can mute those and focus. I _cannot_ mute a coworker talking loudly next to my desk.

thelean12 5y ago
> I _cannot_ mute a coworker talking loudly next to my desk. Maybe my team was more respectful. Any prolonged conversation can and was taken to a conference room or common area. I also wear noise canceling headphones most of the day, and find the general muted drone of office noises nice. People listen to recorded audio of cafes and stuff, it's basically the same for me. But to be clear: I'm not saying everyone should have the same preferences as me. I'm just letting my voice and concerns be heard, since I've heard plenty of people go on about how they think WFH/remote work is better.
- dleslie 5y ago
  Noise cancelling isn't enough. If I know someone is discussing topics important to my deliverables then I have to pay attention.
  - thelean12 5y ago
    I'm not sure how that's different than someone sending a direct message to someone in a chat. Except now you'd definitely have no idea if someone was discussing something important and you were missing it.
    - dleslie 5y ago
      With vocal interaction people expect an immediate response. With text interaction they are willing to tolerate a delay.
- solosoyokaze 5y ago
  It's funny that you described wfh as "robotic" yet you literally have to use robot assisted noise cancellation in your office. I don't mean that to be snarky, just an observation. I find wfh much more "human" as I can be around friends and family, go for walks, eat healthier... Probably the biggest gain is not having a boss watch me all day. That seems superbly unnatural to me.

exotree 5y ago

What is disconcerting about hybrid? This seems to be the solution that strikes a good balance between your needs and the needs of your other coworkers who probably appreciate the increased flexibility.

dleslie 5y ago
Have you ever tried to have a party at two locations? It doesn't work.
- exotree 5y ago
  That’s... not at all the same concept. There are a lot of companies pre-pandemic that had hybrid offices. Many global companies have had zoom rooms and other teleconferencing solutions for years.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  Using this logic, employers' offices and branches in other cities shouldn't work either, but they do. Remote and hybrid companies also show that they work, too.
  - dleslie 5y ago
    Separate offices tend to have separate clients and/or separate products.

whateveracct 5y ago

I love not having a connection to my coworkers personally. I have some connection to the handful of people I directly collaborate with (like people who work on the same codebase), but that's it. And those interactions are far from daily, but enough that I have casual rapport. Nothing meaningful or personal required, but still a good working relationship.

thelean12 5y ago
I spend ~35% of my weekly waking hours with my coworkers. Despite my objection, I completely understand people who want WFH/remote. But I absolutely don't understand people with your sentiment.
- whateveracct 5y ago
  I spend my waking hours with people too, if that helps explain the sentiment. I'm definitely full & happy on the "people I have meaningful relationships with" front without coworkers adding on. Spending 1/3 of my waking adult life with people who happen to have the same employer as me just isn't appealing. It's so easy to find people I have more in common with.

nkrisc 5y ago

Different strokes for different folks, but I work to make money, not friends. If I don’t need the money I wouldn’t be there. I prefer to socialize outside of work. I do my job, my coworkers do their job, and then we can close our laptops at the end of the day and engage with our lives and not think about each other.